←back to thread

Apple vs the Law

(formularsumo.co.uk)
380 points tempodox | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0.501s | source
Show context
simonask ◴[] No.44529604[source]
As a European, I have to say I am generally impressed with the EU in these cases. I'm from a country that's rich and capable, but with a GDP a fraction of Apple's market cap. There is no chance that national laws and entities would be sufficient to protect my consumer rights from corporations this size.

The EU is fundamentally a centre-right, liberalist, pro-business coalition, but what that means is that it is pro-competition. What's really impressive is that it seems to mostly refrain from devolving into protectionist policies, giving no preferential treatment to European businesses against international (intercontinental?) competitors, despite strong populist tendencies in certain member states.

replies(6): >>44529791 #>>44529860 #>>44530729 #>>44530812 #>>44530885 #>>44540013 #
FinnLobsien ◴[] No.44529791[source]
I would argue the opposite: It actually makes European businesses worth off by continuing to make its regulatory environment so complex only massive companies like big tech or Europe's legacy players have the resources to comply.

Add to that feel-good green initiatives like a packaging initiative that might lower packaging waste from European companies, but more likely will just make European goods more expensive and cause Europeans to buy from Temu instead.

replies(10): >>44529817 #>>44529841 #>>44529944 #>>44529961 #>>44530002 #>>44530307 #>>44530446 #>>44530649 #>>44530875 #>>44532390 #
Y-bar ◴[] No.44529944[source]
The EU has basically said that it's better to have a handful medium-sized companies in competition for customers than one or two mega-corps owning and dictating the market. And to resolve that they employ two things, one is the DMA/DSA and similar laws which mostly takes effect when your company reaches a certain large market penetration, the other is standardisations such as the Radio Equipment Directive (think "USB-C law" and similar ones) that make it easier for consumers to avoid vendor lock-in.

> just make European goods more expensive and cause Europeans to buy from Temu instead

Temu is under active investigation for breaching these laws, anyone operating within EU is subject to those laws, not just European companies (e.g. https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/news/commission-ope...)

replies(2): >>44530165 #>>44542612 #
FinnLobsien ◴[] No.44530165[source]
> The EU has basically said that it's better to have a handful medium-sized companies in competition for customers than one or two mega-corps owning and dictating the market. And to resolve that they employ two things, one is the DMA/DSA and similar laws which mostly takes effect when your company reaches a certain large market penetration, the other is standardisations such as the Radio Equipment Directive (think "USB-C law" and similar ones) that make it easier for consumers to avoid vendor lock-in.

Then show me the handful of European, medium-sized companies competing for customers. The problem is that you pass DMA, DSA, GDPR, etc. which Google, Apple etc. can fight for years in court and if they have to pay a few billion, so be it.

Instead what's happening is that European alternatives (the kind that's actually good, not the kind that's European and half as good) don't exist and the incentives to build one shrink because any scaling company is instantly hamstrung.

replies(8): >>44530295 #>>44530336 #>>44530348 #>>44530570 #>>44530741 #>>44536667 #>>44539089 #>>44541538 #
pjmlp ◴[] No.44530336[source]
SAP, Spotify, Sitecore, Roche, Airbus, CERN (the ecosystem powers its research), CodePlay, SN Systems, BAYER, Roche,....
replies(2): >>44530916 #>>44533494 #
FirmwareBurner ◴[] No.44530916[source]
Since when is Airbus a small company and not part of the large state supported corp monopoly gang? Same with SAP, Roche and Bayer. These are all masive corporations that swallowed entire sectors. Same with Spotify having used its monopoly status to screw over smaller artists. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when I read such comments.

Let me ask you guys something else, if EU hates large monopolist companies so much as you claim, then why are all its car companies monopolistic mega conglomerates that rule the world like Volkswagen, Stellantis, Daimler Benz, BMW, and Renault? Where's EU's equivalent of Tesla if they supposedly hate all these big companies?

I'll tell you why: Just like the US, the capital controlled EU also supports its domestic monopolies and only bitches about foreign monopolies in sectors they don't control and threaten their economic hegemony. That's the cold hard truth, everything else is just political hot air and virtue signaling for brownie points, and I'm pissed people are not only buying it but also parroting it when the goal to monopolize business sectors is as strong in EU corporations as it is in US and Chinese ones.

Europe is just more stricter now with controlling large (mostly foreign) corporations since its own economy lost a lot of ground to the US and Chinese ones (it has now half the real GDP it had 2 decades ago), and since it can't create new large companies, all it can do now is protecting what it has left from foreign companies taking over their turf. The upshot being that a lot of those rules are congruent with the consumer protections which also end up globally favoring consumers abroad.

replies(4): >>44531024 #>>44531129 #>>44536704 #>>44537953 #
pjmlp ◴[] No.44531024[source]
Easy, on the car companies that already exist with much better build quality.

We don't need cars from fascists.

replies(2): >>44531099 #>>44532210 #
FirmwareBurner ◴[] No.44532210[source]
>We don't need cars from fascists.

Really? Because look up on the history of VW, BMW, Porsche, Fiat, etc and their founding families, some of who still own a large part of the shares of those companies today. Most of them worked with fascists no problem, some by force of the era some by opportunity but none of them opposed them.

You see this is the typical European hypocrisy that I dislike. Pointing fingers that Elon is somehow a fascist cause he raised his arm once, but Porsche or BMW who used slave labor from work camps is somehow not fascist now because ... reasons I guess.

Explain me that with logic and reason, and not with the "Elon is a fascist because reddit told me he is".

replies(2): >>44533226 #>>44533647 #
pjmlp ◴[] No.44533226[source]
Yes, everyone played a role in WW 2, that is why we try to learn from history, instead of supporting those eager to repeating it.
replies(1): >>44540810 #
1. immibis ◴[] No.44540810[source]
I don't think there is currently any country that was involved in WW2 where repeating WW2 is not mainstream politics.
replies(1): >>44543180 #
2. pjmlp ◴[] No.44543180[source]
One more reason not to sponsor companies tied to people pushing such agenda.