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165 points starkparker | 53 comments | | HN request time: 4.429s | source | bottom
1. supportengineer ◴[] No.44525949[source]
The accident happened because a piece on the airplane wasn’t put back on the right way. The company that made the plane didn’t teach the workers well enough or check their work carefully. Also, the people in charge of making sure planes are safe didn’t do a good job checking on things.
replies(5): >>44526132 #>>44526174 #>>44526187 #>>44526231 #>>44526691 #
2. ◴[] No.44526132[source]
3. heywoods ◴[] No.44526174[source]
What Boeing plant was the aircraft assembled at where this failure occurred?
replies(2): >>44526701 #>>44526793 #
4. bboygravity ◴[] No.44526187[source]
And the whistleblower trying to warn people about this and other issues was potentially executed by the company.
replies(2): >>44526201 #>>44526212 #
5. tptacek ◴[] No.44526201[source]
No he wasn't, and he wasn't.
replies(1): >>44526260 #
6. BolexNOLA ◴[] No.44526212[source]
I see this conspiracy theory hasn’t died yet
replies(3): >>44526236 #>>44526252 #>>44526329 #
7. ryandrake ◴[] No.44526231[source]
At the risk of overgeneralizing, more and more in modern life it feels as though we are all surrounded by people who are supposed to do their jobs right who don't, and people who are supposed to inspect their work who aren't inspecting, and people who are supposed to check the inspection process who aren't checking, and a legislative body who's supposed to regulate all the checking and double checking who aren't doing anything at all!

It's like vast swaths of people are just fooling around, collecting a paycheck, but aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing, and we're all just miraculously surviving our day-to-day because a bunch of denominators are very large numbers!

replies(8): >>44526272 #>>44526340 #>>44526379 #>>44526421 #>>44526465 #>>44526469 #>>44526493 #>>44526729 #
8. CGMthrowaway ◴[] No.44526236{3}[source]
Are we still talking about John Barnett? This guy’s been talked about for years. You’re asking — we have Texas, we have this, we have all of the things. And are people still talking about this guy? That is unbelievable
replies(3): >>44526334 #>>44526419 #>>44527983 #
9. user3939382 ◴[] No.44526252{3}[source]
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68534703.amp

This is one of two. As theories go conspiracy is pretty plausible in this case. Unless you’re just naive about how the world works.

replies(1): >>44526410 #
10. user3939382 ◴[] No.44526260{3}[source]
Right because you’re the source of authority on how and why these people died.
replies(3): >>44526364 #>>44526365 #>>44526470 #
11. pishpash ◴[] No.44526272[source]
No, because some people still care and clean up enough after the slackers. The slackers also realize this and slack just enough for nothing major to happen often.
replies(2): >>44526301 #>>44526508 #
12. almosthere ◴[] No.44526301{3}[source]
This is not true, when that many people stop doing their job it spreads like a virus and the ones that still stand for good either a) leave companies or b) become infected also.

They don't go against the grain. The people that do would have to have a constitution like no one you've met. Those people quit the moment covid-19 hit and they have since died or are just permanently retired.

13. almosthere ◴[] No.44526329{3}[source]
These days, I only trust the conspiracy theories. Did you hear about Mike Lynch and the HP acquisition. Shady af
replies(1): >>44526342 #
14. MrZongle2 ◴[] No.44526334{4}[source]
Well done. No notes.
15. HeyLaughingBoy ◴[] No.44526340[source]
I have worked in the medical devices industry as a software engineer for about 20 years at this point. As you would expect, it's a very process-heavy field. I've generally worked with careful, competent people who want to do a good job and process goes a long way towards facilitating that.

Every time I think about process though, I remember an editorial I read a long time ago about an engineer's experience in the aviation industry. He wasn't too thrilled about process. Instead, in his own words, "we were motivated by a very sincere desire to not kill anyone.

16. BolexNOLA ◴[] No.44526342{4}[source]
While you’re bound to be right occasionally I would suggest maybe rethinking how open minded you should be
replies(1): >>44526431 #
17. HeyLaughingBoy ◴[] No.44526364{4}[source]
Don't know why I'm bothering, but here: https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/17/business/boeing-whistleblower...

If you have evidence to the contrary, by all means let us know.

replies(1): >>44526759 #
18. rcxdude ◴[] No.44526365{4}[source]
About as much so as the person they were replying to, who was speculating with a similar lack of evidence.
19. tiahura ◴[] No.44526379[source]
The counter-culture successfully demonized concepts like duty, personal accountability, and shame. A boy scout was to be mocked.
replies(3): >>44526481 #>>44526526 #>>44526555 #
20. vel0city ◴[] No.44526410{4}[source]
There's supposedly video evidence of him parking his truck and nobody approaching it at all until people were there discovering the body. He had his personal firearm in his hand, ballistics suggest the bullet came from his gun, and it followed a path that made sense with him holding it and using it on himself.

But hey I guess they did some kind of mind control on him.

replies(3): >>44526515 #>>44527515 #>>44529806 #
21. kevin_thibedeau ◴[] No.44526419{4}[source]
Then let's talk about why the weapons shipments were suspended.
22. renewiltord ◴[] No.44526421[source]
It’s because we are very good at getting smart people into high comp jobs so all these low remuneration jobs are pretty much idiots.

If they can avoid weed long enough to pass the drug tests, they’ll be playing Candy Crush on their phone when inspecting.

They just don’t have the mental horsepower. Like being upset a jellyfish didn’t discover calculus.

Patio11 calls this The Sort. I thought it was good name.

23. almosthere ◴[] No.44526431{5}[source]
lately it's 100%

Aliens are visiting and/or we have electro-gravitics (which would likely imply visitors too)

9/11 - the story we were told isn't true - building 7? passports found?

there are 2 dead Boeing whistleblowers

the openai whistleblower

replies(2): >>44526478 #>>44526513 #
24. mschuster91 ◴[] No.44526465[source]
pay peanuts, get monkeys.

when you pay utter shit but the c-level earns many 100x the salary of the workers, of course they don't give a fuck.

25. visarga ◴[] No.44526469[source]
> At the risk of overgeneralizing, more and more in modern life it feels as though we are all surrounded by people who are supposed to do their jobs right who don't

Meta observation - human society works by abstraction - leaky, and functional - not genuine understanding. Searle was wrong. There is no genuine understanding, only a web of abstractions that sometimes break.

26. RandomBacon ◴[] No.44526470{4}[source]
If I was determined to commit suicide, I'd probably try to accomplish other goals with it if I could. For that person, FUD might have been his secondary goal.

I imagine if someone is contemplating suicide, they are not in a good place. Trying to sow FUD would be in line with that.

A tragedy begetting more tragedy.

27. BolexNOLA ◴[] No.44526478{6}[source]
Yeah I’m out man. Not touching this
28. cosmicgadget ◴[] No.44526481{3}[source]
Don't worry, the mainstream does this too while pretending to honor those values.
29. metabagel ◴[] No.44526493[source]
In general, people do what the organization providing their paycheck asks them to do. If their manager tells them to cut corners, they'll likely cut corners.

Some people are opposed to bureaucracy and will tend to try to undermine processes which are designed to prevent errors in production and execution. Organizational culture needs to be established and maintained, which aligns everyone toward the processes needed to maintain required standards.

30. metabagel ◴[] No.44526508{3}[source]
The issue at Boeing wasn't due to slackers. It was a process issue due to cutting corners (management issue).
31. lukan ◴[] No.44526513{6}[source]
Well, a broken watch is still right 2 times a day.
32. duk3luk3 ◴[] No.44526515{5}[source]
> There's supposedly video evidence

That statement is so weak it's better at inflaming the conspiracy theory than quelling it.

replies(1): >>44526762 #
33. metabagel ◴[] No.44526526{3}[source]
It's nothing to do with the counter culture. Boeing cut corners in order to save money. That's the long and the short of it.
34. ◴[] No.44526555{3}[source]
35. ◴[] No.44526691[source]
36. kayfox ◴[] No.44526701[source]
As with all but the first few 737s, it was assembled at Renton. The door plug was installed in Wichita by Spirit Aerosystems and there were issues with rivets in the surrounding structure that Spirit removed the plug to correct in Renton.

As a result of this Boeing is now refusing to sign off on fuselages with defects found at Spirit to be transported to Renton. And also Boeing will be buying back Spirit, which had been spun out of Boeing by the McDonall-Douglass management that took over Boeing when McDonall-Douglass bought Boeing with Boeings own money.

37. aboodman ◴[] No.44526729[source]
At the end of the day people have to care about their job, for a reason bigger than getting a paycheck. Society can coast for awhile when people don't care but things eventually break down.

You can add process but the people running the process have to care. You can add regulation, but then the regulators have to care.

At the end of the day people have to care. And it really has to be everyone, because if one group cares and another doesn't, the one that cares will soon get disillusioned.

Caring alone is not sufficient. You do need process to catch mistakes. But process alone is also not sufficient.

38. tptacek ◴[] No.44526759{5}[source]
Of note: the whistleblower we're talking about had already given testimony, which is to say the conspiracy theory requires you to believe Boeing was willing to kill a whistleblower, but only after they testified.

(Not that it could possibly have mattered, but he also never worked on the 737; several still-living current and former Boeing employees have filed complaints about 737 production processes).

replies(1): >>44531077 #
39. vel0city ◴[] No.44526762{6}[source]
I hadn't watched the footage personally. Many other have and that was their conclusion.

The coroner's report also sure sounds like a suicide. Gunshot to the right temple, very close range, from the victim's gun. No evidence of any struggle or forced entry. No evidence of anyone being with him. A note with only his fingerprints in what seems to be his handwriting.

Obviously there's no possibile way a mentally unstable person under a lot of continued stress would ever take their own life, just never happens. The only way people die are because corporations have them executed.

Is there even a single shred of evidence suggesting someone else pulled the trigger?

40. umeshunni ◴[] No.44526793[source]
The fuselage is made by Spirit AeroSystems in Wichita, KS:

https://www.npr.org/2024/06/04/nx-s1-4983722/inside-spirit-a...

The 737 assembly happens in Renton, WA

41. BolexNOLA ◴[] No.44527515{5}[source]
edit: I misread your original comment
replies(2): >>44527557 #>>44527625 #
42. vel0city ◴[] No.44527557{6}[source]
I mean lots of local news agencies played clips of it. Numerous agencies got a copy of it. Few seem to deny its existence from what I can tell. It's not like certain lists that are one person's desk one day and never existed the next. The video is out there, I just hadn't personally watched it before so I personally couldn't vouch for it absolute existence. I guess a ton of people's beliefs entirely hinge on if I, vel0city, have personally examined the materials.

Y'all are really reading a lot into my usage of supposedly in that statement.

43. AnimalMuppet ◴[] No.44527625{6}[source]
Hmm. When you put it that way, it rings a bell. One of the things in the fascist playbook is that the enemy is both very strong and very weak.

Looking through Eco's 14 points of fascism, I could see conspiracy theories fitting numbers 2, 4, 7, and 8, and having a tendency toward 5, 6, 9, 10, 11, 13, and 14.

I hadn't considered conspiracy theory believers to be in any way related to fascists. But maybe I could see it. Both are a simplistic overarching narrative with clear-cut good guys and bad guys (and therefore at least an implied morality). But still, I'm kind of surprised here. I'm not sure I know what to make of this.

44. BolexNOLA ◴[] No.44527983{4}[source]
Fantastic lol
45. prmoustache ◴[] No.44529806{5}[source]
I am not particularly a complotist but I don't think suicides are enough to dismiss the idea that a death wasn't forced by a third party.

Which path would you choose if for instance you were told by an external power that your relatives might die in an accident soon if you don't kill yourself in the next 24h?

Having said that gut feeling is not evidence.

replies(2): >>44532207 #>>44532362 #
46. user3939382 ◴[] No.44531077{6}[source]
Of note is something called a chilling effect which you are required to believe
replies(1): >>44532791 #
47. potato3732842 ◴[] No.44532207{6}[source]
>I am not particularly a complotist but I don't think suicides are enough to dismiss the idea that a death wasn't forced by a third party.

Just ask Rommel.

48. vel0city ◴[] No.44532362{6}[source]
Are you strong willed enough to overcome the mind control abilities of the lizard people? I have a strong gut feeling they were involved in this, since they obviously control all the large corporations. There's about as much evidence for this theory as well.

We can just make things up and that's our reality these days. Write your own adventure.

Imagine if we made it harder for mentally unwell people to own firearms and required serial transfer databases. If he never owned a gun and was then found shot in the temple one day that'd be a bit more questionable. The gun most likely to end your life in the US is your own gun in your own hands.

49. tptacek ◴[] No.44532791{7}[source]
Yes, 1/3rd of all people murdered in Seattle that year were murdered by Boeing too, as a warning to others not to whistleblow. Strange that it didn't work to prevent more whistleblowing!
replies(1): >>44535024 #
50. user3939382 ◴[] No.44535024{8}[source]
1/3rd of all people murdered in Seattle didn't have damaging testimony against Boeing. Obviously you're being sarcastic but I'm not sure what point you're making.
replies(1): >>44535737 #
51. tptacek ◴[] No.44535737{9}[source]
That there is nothing more to this conspiracy theory other than "someone with a previous whistleblower case against Boeing died, ergo Boeing killed him".
replies(1): >>44539306 #
52. user3939382 ◴[] No.44539306{10}[source]
Correct, your mistake is assuming you need more than that to find the theory plausible. The types of people who stand to lose big from a company like Boeing going down would sell their own grandmothers for $5. At best you’re naive about how the world works.
replies(1): >>44539346 #
53. tptacek ◴[] No.44539346{11}[source]
Nice to see the logic laid out so plainly. Thanks!