←back to thread

414 points tareqak | 3 comments | | HN request time: 2.435s | source
Show context
me551ah ◴[] No.44470473[source]
I doubt if this will make much difference. Offshoring as a tactic emerged in the pandemic when companies realised that being “remote” works just as well.

Sure, foreign R&D still gets amortized over 15 years (NPV ≈59 % of a full write-off, so you “lose” ~8.6 % of your R&D spend in present-value terms, and only 6.7 % of the cost is deductible in year 1, creating a 19.6 % cash-tax gap). But offshore wages are often 50–70 % below U.S. rates:

• Even after the slower amortization drag, hiring at half the cost nets you ~30 % total savings on R&D headcount.

• On a pure cash basis you only need ~20 % lower wages to break even; most offshore markets easily exceed that.

• So the labor-cost arbitrage far outweighs the tax timing penalty unless your foreign salaries are less than ~20 % below U.S. levels.

In short: the 15-year amort rule hurts your tax deduction, but 50 %+ lower offshore wages more than make up for it.

replies(8): >>44470502 #>>44470560 #>>44470669 #>>44470673 #>>44471236 #>>44471284 #>>44471500 #>>44474792 #
bravesoul2 ◴[] No.44471284[source]
Not convinced. Offshore has been possible since forever. Maybe IC cam be remote now. Your team can be global. US lead, 2 India based devs, 2 brazil devs. But not having this wasn't a blocker for saving money.

10, 100 or 500 people team in India who could work in the office together was possible forever.

It will change. I think once other countries become bigger investment centres. Not sure how yet though. US is a good potting soil for a startup because there is this huge addressable and free market. And the startup ecosystem. Then add in that most startups want WFO and minimum synced time zones... and for larger tech all that specialism is in house in the US.

replies(1): >>44471306 #
g0db1t ◴[] No.44471306[source]
Yeah, there's simply a lot of 'Muricans thinking programming and software dev. for some reason only can be done inside of the US.

As a EU senior dev I know zero senior devs making six figures pa - Go figure

replies(3): >>44471322 #>>44471395 #>>44471818 #
CalRobert ◴[] No.44471395[source]
It's not the heady days of 2022 but six figures shouldn't be impossible for someone with 10+ years of experience. But the trick is to (mostly) ignore the European companies and go for the American ones operating in Europe. Switzerland, Norway, and Ireland can be decent too.

I'm still stunned when I see what devs are paid in Germany and southern Europe though.

replies(1): >>44472052 #
FirmwareBurner ◴[] No.44472052[source]
>I'm still stunned when I see what devs are paid in Germany and southern Europe though.

Are German wages really low? I thought Germany as the richest country in Europe.

replies(2): >>44472401 #>>44475157 #
CalRobert ◴[] No.44472401[source]
They seem much lower than, say, Ireland, Switzerland, Norway, etc. Eastern and southern Europe are low but also lower cost of living. A fraction of the US regardless.
replies(1): >>44474211 #
FirmwareBurner ◴[] No.44474211[source]
I think you're only looking at big tech wages when you compare with Ireland. Norway doesn't have much of a tech industry.
replies(1): >>44474699 #
disgruntledphd2 ◴[] No.44474699[source]
Yeah but there's lots and lots of no big tech US companies in Ireland. They generally don't have much equity or bonuses but the base is OK. I got 6 figures from a bunch of them in Ireland so it's possible.
replies(1): >>44476302 #
FirmwareBurner ◴[] No.44476302[source]
How much of that wage is left after taxes and Dublin housing?
replies(1): >>44479052 #
1. disgruntledphd2 ◴[] No.44479052[source]
Feck all, unfortunately. Like, if you either 1. buy a house some years back or 2. get an off-books rental through someone you know then you can do well.

Alternatively, if you work for one of the Big Tech places then you'll get a really good wage (by irish standards) as well as enough benefits to make you feel a bunch better off. Additionally the bonuses and equity there help a lot.

But yeah, Ireland's super expensive. Our household is at about the 85% percentile income, and we have a (small/expensive) house but we don't have a lot left after all of our outgoings.

So yeah, you can get a better salary but you probably won't have a whole lot more disposable income (but apart from all that, ireland's a great place to live).

replies(1): >>44479377 #
2. CalRobert ◴[] No.44479377[source]
Yeah, we tried to hack this by buying a cheap place in Offaly near the train and working remote, and it was kinda-sorta OK except that our neighbours were hell on Earth. Gave up and moved to the Netherlands which has been great for our kids' independence.

I do miss a good snug though.

replies(1): >>44484219 #
3. FirmwareBurner ◴[] No.44484219[source]
Aren't Netherlands wages lower than Germany except for US big-tech and stock taring companies?

I got a 70k offer last week from a recruiter with 10YoE to move to NL and it felt like a ripoff.