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    207 points lexandstuff | 12 comments | | HN request time: 1.357s | source | bottom
    1. WillAdams ◴[] No.44476982[source]
    The late Marshall Brain's novella "Manna" touches on this:

    https://marshallbrain.com/manna1

    The idea of taxing computer sales to fund job re-training for displaced workers was brought up during the Carter administration.

    replies(1): >>44477943 #
    2. fy20 ◴[] No.44477943[source]
    I came across this a couple of weeks ago, and it's a good read. I'd recommend it to everyone interested in this topic.

    Althogh it was written somewhat as a warning, I feel Western countries (especially the US) are heading very much towards the terrafoam future. Mass immigration is making it hard to maintain order in some places, and if AI causes large unemployment it will only get worse.

    replies(4): >>44478985 #>>44480303 #>>44481552 #>>44481816 #
    3. amanaplanacanal ◴[] No.44478985[source]
    > Mass immigration is making it hard to maintain order in some places

    Where is this happening? I'm in the US, and I haven't seen or heard of this.

    replies(1): >>44479533 #
    4. GardenLetter27 ◴[] No.44479533{3}[source]
    Europe.

    Although I wouldn't pin it just on mass immigration, but also economic malaise from short-sighted decisions (stopping nuclear power and fracking and just importing energy) and being so weak on crime.

    Like in Sweden we pay ~50% income tax plus 25% VAT, etc. so you can barely save up, so even as a professional engineer I can't afford a car or a house instead of an apartment (also as my wife is still looking for work). Meanwhile terrible criminals like the Nytorgsmannen got only ~5 years in prison for over 25 rapes, and was living in a rent-controlled apartment in central Stockholm! I wouldn't be able to afford that at market rates!

    But the far-right party also sucks, just making it harder on decent non-Swedes like myself and my wife (doubled the time to citizenship for example), while doing nothing about the aforementioned criminals (the Nytorgsmannen is actually Swedish too).

    There is no common sense party that'll just put criminals in prison and embrace economic growth (no AI act, etc.) and free markets and competition - hopefully Elon Musk's new party will do well, and a sort of Musk-Zubrin-Kuan Yew-Bukele pragmatism will become popular.

    For closer to what the OP is referring to, see the riots in the UK last year.

    replies(2): >>44479941 #>>44481630 #
    5. lyu07282 ◴[] No.44479941{4}[source]
    > I can't afford a car or a house instead of an apartment (also as my wife is still looking for work). Meanwhile terrible criminals like the Nytorgsmannen got only ~5 years in prison for over 25 rapes, and was living in a rent-controlled apartment in central Stockholm! I wouldn't be able to afford that at market rates!

    This almost reads like a satire of right-wing populist propaganda, people's real economic grievances are getting redirected towards the most inconsequential and powerless scapegoats in society, immigrants.

    This is especially tragic for people who themselves are immigrants who will also become the target by these populists. The more people suffer economically, the more they are looking for real alternatives. Then an "outsider" right populist comes in and offers just that, except of course with the backing by the wealthiest class of society, the ones actually responsible for your economic grievances in the first place.

    This pattern repeats itself all across the western liberal democracies. Its not the people rising up, it's the richest people in the world holding on to power while the neoliberal house of cards that made them rich comes crumbling down.

    replies(2): >>44480347 #>>44481904 #
    6. WillAdams ◴[] No.44480303[source]
    I don't want to get into politics, but to shift things slightly --- what technological and business structures might help to shift things for the better?

    I rather regret not being able to justify buying:

    https://daylightcomputer.com/

    since it was set up as a public benefit corporation.

    Similarly, there are co-operatives for electric still --- how are they handling solar? Do they afford an option to use one's share of the profits to purchase solar panels and batteries?

    What would be an equivalent structure for an AI company which would actually be meaningful (and since circling back to politics is inevitable, enforceable)?

    7. financltravsty ◴[] No.44480347{5}[source]
    You missed the point to hop on your soapbox.

    Yes immigrants are used as a scapegoat. No immigration is not a completely faultless thing that can be allowed willy nilly and have zero negative consequences.

    8. ta1243 ◴[] No.44481552[source]
    Neither future is good. Sure the Australia one with chips in your brain to alter your thoughts might seem better, but it's still a dystopia.
    9. ta1243 ◴[] No.44481630{4}[source]
    > Like in Sweden we pay ~50% income tax

    Sweden median income is 345,529 SEK, or $36k. 90%ile is 658,623 SEK or $69k. For 20-65 year olds it's a bit higher.

    (That's from "Total income from employment and business by deciles, sex and age 2023")

    Someone on 700k a year - so top 10% income - pays about 26% of their income in income tax.

    10. exceptione ◴[] No.44481816[source]

      > Mass immigration is
    
    ... the reason you are able to chat on the internet instead of doing low paid, hard work. But don't discount the upside of immigration. It is a great subject to spread narratives about. "Others" is a matter to which people are very sensitive to. The Irish are absolute trash, as are the Italians. But what we really could do without are the Catholics, they are a direct threat to society.

    There is always crime to report. But notice the narratives are never about white collar crime. That might come to close.

    replies(1): >>44482020 #
    11. exceptione ◴[] No.44481904{5}[source]

      > it's the richest people in the world holding on to power while the
      > neoliberal house of cards that made them rich comes crumbling down.
    
    Bingo. With al their tax rulings, exemptions, privatizations of public services, disinvestment in education, the ecosystem starts to suffer. They either reverse course, share power, go to a win-win mindset, or... double down and hollow out the last institutions, while distracting people with rage about imaginary transgenders and people with melanin. When the host dies, they jump onto the next victim. There are already sightings of Vance in Germany.

    What we are seeing time and time again, the parasites are able to reprogram the host, steering it towards its own death.

    12. Tadpole9181 ◴[] No.44482020{3}[source]
    As a lukewarm defense of their statement, mass immigration has indirect effects too, it's not merely a reflection on the immigrants themselves.

    There is a global rise in far right populism, and a large part of the justification and rhetoric they use points directly to mass immigration policies. There's a myriad of things they blame: crime, demographic or culture shift, economy.

    To be clear, that isn't to say they're right blaming immigration. But its existence has put an enormous burden on democracies in The West. Just look at what a promise to get rid of immigrants did to the US 2016+: a captured, sycophantic, authoritarian government that disregards the rule of law regularly. Leading to regular mass protest and public opposition to LEO.

    In Europe it's common to see people point to token heinous crimes - that pregnant woman raped into a miscarriage and her attacker given 12 months, the pedophile gang in the UK - and then use the demographics involved to radicalize people (especially young men - see the Alt Right Pipeline).