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480 points riffraff | 25 comments | | HN request time: 1.023s | source | bottom
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dang ◴[] No.44463006[source]
[stub for offtopicness]
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saubeidl ◴[] No.44462362[source]
In related news:

* Data centers powering artificial intelligence could use more electricity than entire cities [0]

* Google’s emissions up 51% as AI electricity demand derails efforts to go green [1]

* AI is poised to drive 160% increase in data center power demand [2]

It is a doomsday cult in the most literal sense.

[0] https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/23/data-centers-powering-ai-cou...

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jun/27/google-em...

[2] https://www.goldmansachs.com/insights/articles/AI-poised-to-...

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1. jeroenhd ◴[] No.44462451[source]
It's not necessarily a doomsday cult as long as there is incentive to build green infrastructure.

AI is a massive waste of power in many (most?) cases, but electricity does not necessarily need to be generated in a way that releases CO2. Solar panels, wind farms, geothermic energy, and even nuclear plants can satisfy AI's requirements and only leave it to be a local problem.

Unfortunately, the USA, the government of country with the biggest impact per citizen as well as the hotbed of current AI development, has started taking down climate change related information to serve their oil baron masters. That leaves environmental responsibility with companies and their shareholders.

AI isn't a doomsday cult. It's the epitome of the "Yes, the planet got destroyed. But for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders" meme in real life.

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2. saubeidl ◴[] No.44462474[source]
A few points here.

If AI were to not use so much energy, we would have a much easier time covering our need with green sources. Yes, we can probably also account for the additional use by AI, but it'll make an already existential challenge so much harder.

Regarding your last paragraph - AI is just the riders of the apocalypse. The doomsday cult is capitalism.

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3. lopis ◴[] No.44462575[source]
Right now we are using renewables essentially at capacity, always. Any extra electricity use therefore needs fossil fuels to power it. It's as simple as that. The AI computation explosion is completely irresponsible and any claims that it can be green are false unless the data centers produce their own solar/nuclear on-site (and even then it's producing tons of waste heat).
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4. munksbeer ◴[] No.44462596[source]
> AI isn't a doomsday cult. It's the epitome of the "Yes, the planet got destroyed. But for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders" meme in real life.

What if the pursuit of real AI is what eventually saves humanity and leads to a utopian rather than dystopian future?

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5. saubeidl ◴[] No.44462616[source]
That is a pretty big if to be betting the house on.

I'm not comfortable with that call being made on my behalf by those with everything to gain from it. The same people that have coincidentally been building doomsday bunkers.

6. nisa ◴[] No.44462629[source]
We know what to do. We don't need to wait for some magic AI that's basically learned from books written by humans to tell us what to do. It's all about power structures, capitalism and money.

Everyone in the oil business knew in the 80ies.

We could probably even figure out how to keep our standard of living but consumerism needs to stop but then capitalism breaks down.

7. keyringlight ◴[] No.44462656[source]
We've already proven we can build huge amounts of renewable generation if we want, the issue I see is that additional huge demands like AI prevent us from making carbon based generation redundant, lowest priority choice in the mix of sources or used exclusively for its strengths to respond quickly to changing needs.
8. ChrisMarshallNY ◴[] No.44462669[source]
> utopian rather than dystopian future

To that, I must ask: look at the people driving the revolution, and their personal ethics.

What future do you think they will provide?

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9. williamdclt ◴[] No.44462676[source]
None of the incentive structures of our societies are set up to go on this direction. None of the people in power (politically or privately) are trying to make this happen. As you’d expect, we see in practice that this isn’t the direction in which we’re going.

I see no reason to expect this technology to save us. We don’t even need AI to save ourselves from dystopia, it’s not been about lack of technology for decades, we need to change our societies structurally _somehow_

10. newsclues ◴[] No.44462710[source]
"It's not necessarily a doomsday cult as long as there is incentive to build green infrastructure."

is building green infrastructure environmentally friendly? The mines, machinery, ships, concrete, steel, the processing plants, etc, really Green, just because it's for EVs or batteries?

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11. nntwozz ◴[] No.44462807[source]
This thinking is on brand with a cult.

Humanity doesn't need saving, it just needs actual humanity.

12. netsharc ◴[] No.44462813[source]
EVs really are a "slightly better" solution the planet's health can't even afford. ICE cars are worse but EVs aren't helping save the planet either. Ideally we should probably all be cycling or taking trains and buses...

Of course humanity runs on balance between living (and procreating) and saving the planet.. the quickest way to save the planet would be for all of us to drop dead, but very few of us would be in favor of that idea.

13. shafyy ◴[] No.44462816[source]
Exactly. Why is this so hard to understand? It's about the marignal use. I can't believe anybody who is smart and thought about this for two seconds can make this argument in good faith.
14. shafyy ◴[] No.44462833[source]
What are you, 12 years old and just read a sci fi novel? Or been living under a god damn rock? Sorry, but comments like this make me so fucking angry.
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15. PeterStuer ◴[] No.44462851[source]
"AI is a massive waste of power". So is nearly everything of what we do and consume. Not sure why AI would be the 'epitome' besides being this month's flavor of convenient whipping boy.

Especially here in Europe we like to play the 'Greener than Thou' card while for decades have been doing absolutely nothing real besides imaginary 'carbon credit' spreadsheet shenanigans, tipple passing the subsidy handouts for burning our forests in Dutch incinerators, exporting all our 'emissions' to China and paying very dubious buddies on the other side of the world for 'net zero' absolutions while tripling our real pollution.

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16. nisa ◴[] No.44462881{3}[source]
It's crazy reading these comments here. We are really living in some dystopian future to some degree. Let's unite and fight. Act local, do what you can and don't lose hope. The Internet is broken. Not sure if it's just brainwashed people commenting here or bots or some societies just embrace destroying everything for profit and capitalism.
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17. seviu ◴[] No.44462887[source]
We gotta build legislations that force Bitcoin mining facilities or big data centers to massively improve the grid and make sure they have plans to run on self powered nuclear or green energy.

The case of Bitcoin is more damning because pow for just no reason, serves no purpose. Security by consuming massive amounts of power. There is a reason why Ethereum successfully moved away from that. But Bitcoin will never dare to.

Unfortunately as you say the powers are currently focusing on denying what is clearly undeniable.

This article made me fear first time since a while for what kind of future are my daughters live in. I am truly sorry and sad.

18. ohdeargodno ◴[] No.44462919[source]
Every single major AI company is led by sociopaths drunk on authoritarianism, fascism and borderline theocracy dreams.

Needless to say, the utopia plan is going badly.

19. shafyy ◴[] No.44462930{4}[source]
For sure! Just do something, even if it's handing out flyers at your local mall once a month for some good cause.
20. radicalbyte ◴[] No.44462960[source]
Given the bill that the Americans just passed.. it's going to be an absolute shit-show.

The smart play was to allow AI to fuel a massive growth in production of solar panels and wind in the US which could actually rival China (who are going to eat the US within a decade) but corruption has put pay to that.

21. vimy ◴[] No.44462986[source]
> exporting all our 'emissions' to China

A popular narrative but it’s false. Even when we take it into account Europe’s emissions keep dropping.

It’s a small % of China’s massive emissions. They produce and consume on a level we can’t fathom. Their middle class has more people than the US and EU combined.

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22. PeterStuer ◴[] No.44463034{3}[source]
If we used to consume 1 locally produced widget and had x emissions as a result, and now consume 3 China produced widgets shipped to us from around the world, while pretending we now have zero emissions as a result, how would you call that?
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23. munksbeer ◴[] No.44463715{3}[source]
If you really want me to comment, then I can, but people downvote different opinions on AI here, so it doesn't seem fruitful.

I'm an optimist by nature. I probably do err on the side of optimism. But when I look back over history, I see a trend upward in living standards, despite the modern determination to pretend this hasn't happened, or to cherry pick data to prove the opposite, and despite prophecies of doom at almost every step change.

I'm inclined to believe that will continue to happen, that regardless of what people personally think of Altman, Zuckerberg, etc, that ultimately, strong AI is inevitable, and that it will be a force for improving our lives.

I do not believe we'll be relegated to poor existences, while the captains of AI or whoever the elite are defined to be, live in paradise with robot workers do everything for them. It just makes no sense.

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24. ChrisMarshallNY ◴[] No.44464011{4}[source]
> people downvote different opinions

Not just on AI. Personally, I only downvote stuff that I think coarsens the dialogue. The opinion expressed, is not really relevant. I like living in a world where I'm challenged.

I too, am an optimist. I think that AI can have tremendous positive effect.

But I also have considerable life experience with the darker corners of human nature, and know exactly how bad it can get (HINT: There's no bottom). Some of the very worst specimens of ... humanity, I guess (for lack of a better term) ... are quite cultured and well-educated. Filed fingernails mean absolutely nothing, when it comes to personal Integrity.

A quick shufti through human history, will quickly show that our shared prosperity is merely a recent blip on the screen. Most of history is the 0.01%, living high on the hog, while the 99.99% live in hell, serving the 0.01%. AI can definitely enable that kind of society.

25. vimy ◴[] No.44467554{4}[source]
Let me be more clear. European emissions are down compared to the 90s. By a lot. And yes, taking into account 'exported emissions'. And yet we consume more.

Time to rethink what you have been told.