←back to thread

144 points scubakid | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.223s | source
Show context
profsummergig ◴[] No.44417273[source]
FWIW, China also produces enormous (enormous) quantities of seafood from caged underwater oceanic farms. It's the future of fishing IMHO.

The rich, everywhere in the world, will continue to seek wild-caught though. (While they publicly rail against the poor eating wild-caught. Such is how the wheels turn.).

replies(4): >>44417845 #>>44417940 #>>44418011 #>>44420706 #
Nursie ◴[] No.44418011[source]
Tasmania produces a lot of caged salmon.

It’s bad for the salmon (in terms of animal welfare) and it’s wrecking the local ecosystems. It’s not any sort of panacea.

We need to stop destroying ocean ecosystems, not just shift the damage around. Overfishing of wild stock, habitat destruction through bottom-trawling and intensive fish farming all need to be properly looked at.

replies(2): >>44418196 #>>44424663 #
tedk-42 ◴[] No.44418196[source]
> We need to stop destroying ocean ecosystems, not just shift the damage around. Overfishing of wild stock, habitat destruction through bottom-trawling and intensive fish farming all need to be properly looked at.

You criticise, yet don't provide any suitable recommendations or alternatives.

People like to eat fish and have done so since the beginning of our species.

replies(7): >>44418214 #>>44418562 #>>44418814 #>>44419073 #>>44419637 #>>44420348 #>>44425742 #
abdullahkhalids ◴[] No.44418814[source]
The solution to overfishing, over consumption of fossil fuels, over consumption of beef etc is all the same in the current system. Impose appropriate taxes that adequately capture the impact of the negative externalities.

Living in unsustainable ways is ... well not sustainable.

If people have liked to eat fish since the start, then maybe we should leave some for the next generations.

replies(2): >>44419312 #>>44421003 #
Larrikin ◴[] No.44419312[source]
When should the tax stop being raised? The solution is not to make it so only the rich can eat fish, beef, etc. This idea is only ever proposed by people who think they will always be able to afford it or people who think no one should be able to enjoy animal meat.
replies(2): >>44419462 #>>44419531 #
nothrabannosir ◴[] No.44419531[source]
When it has reached the cost of renewing the resource.

Taxing externalities isn't about "guaranteeing everyone can have access to the resource": that's circular. Taxing externalities is about ensuring that those who profit from a public good, also pay the public for the value of that good.

Hypothetical: If tomorrow it turns out that eating beef is somehow the ultimate cause of environmental destruction, and every cow fart requires $1MM in cleanup fees or humanity goes extinct, then we should tax cows at $1MM per fart, full stop. "But not everyone will be able to eat beef!" is not an argument, unless you want to say "We would rather all eat beef than survive as a species."

Of course: in reality it's not so clear cut. But the principle remains.

Of course: once you've determined a price for the good and levied taxes, you can then either use that price to clean up / renew the resource, or just distribute the money directly to citizens (see canada's "carbon price") to effectively pay people not to consume the resource. Same difference.

replies(1): >>44419761 #
Larrikin ◴[] No.44419761[source]
The solution to fossil fuels was not make gas cost 20 dollars a gallon (or an imagined unbounded amount) so only people who really need to drive can afford it. It was serious research into many different forms of energy. There are many old people who have their lively hoods tied to the fact that we ignore the science, but we do have solutions.

Propose some kind of research into lab grown meat, extremely cheap feed, or some unthought of billion dollar idea solution.

Rich get to enjoy something that all of humanity has enjoyed for the entirety of human existence will never be a solution people take seriously.

replies(3): >>44419799 #>>44420066 #>>44420145 #
1. nothrabannosir ◴[] No.44420145[source]
A pigovian tax is not mutually exclusive with those options— in fact it incentivizes them. No need to do market planning for “lab grown meat” or whatever is the central planner’s fancy du jour: set a price and let the market figure it out.

Why have governments pick and choose “winning energy strategies” when you can let the market do it?

Literally how it works in practice with carbon credits today, your assertions to the contrary notwithstanding.