←back to thread

342 points divbzero | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
Show context
GMoromisato ◴[] No.44401068[source]
In case anyone is wondering, we are (sadly) very far from getting an image of this planet (or any extra-solar planet) that is more than 1 pixel across.

At 110 light-years distance you would need a telescope ~450 kilometers across to image this planet at 100x100 pixel resolution--about the size of a small icon. That is a physical limit based on the wavelength of light.

The best we could do is build a space-based optical interferometer with two nodes 450 kilometers apart, but synchronized to 1 wavelength. That's a really tough engineering challenge.

replies(17): >>44401110 #>>44401184 #>>44401253 #>>44401265 #>>44401398 #>>44402344 #>>44402398 #>>44402585 #>>44402661 #>>44402689 #>>44402874 #>>44403215 #>>44403439 #>>44403929 #>>44403949 #>>44404611 #>>44408076 #
GolfPopper ◴[] No.44401398[source]
We can do better than that! Using the Sun as a gravitation lens[1], and a probe at a focal point of 542 AU, we could get 25km scale surface resolution on a planet 98 ly away. [2] This would be an immense and time-consuming endeavor, but does seem to be within humanity's current technological capabilities.

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_gravitational_lens

2. https://www.nasa.gov/general/direct-multipixel-imaging-and-s...

replies(9): >>44401440 #>>44401445 #>>44401520 #>>44401969 #>>44402006 #>>44402168 #>>44402383 #>>44404832 #>>44406627 #
os2warpman ◴[] No.44401969[source]
A maintenance-free power source capable of lasting the 200 or so years it would take to make it to 542 AU does not seem within humanity's current technological capabilities.

Parker at its highest velocity could make it there in a century, but it doesn't have to slow down and stop. Or station keep.

When we have a power source that can do 5kW (I just doubled Hubble, 542 AU would probably require much more for communications) for 100 years I'll agree that its design can be refined and its lifespan extended to 200 and 542 AU is within our reach.

replies(5): >>44402336 #>>44403500 #>>44404634 #>>44405777 #>>44408442 #
dotnet00 ◴[] No.44402336[source]
With distances that big, is it even necessary to slow down much? The depth of focus is probably a couple dozen AU? Even if it takes the probe a century to get there, if you can squeeze a decade or two of observation out of it without slowing down, there's no reason to bother and instead send a new upgraded telescope every decade or so.

As far as power requirements go, assuming a doubled power demand from Hubble might be a bit excessive. A telescope that far out would have to be nuclear powered, so thermal regulation is 'free'/passive and RCS load is reduced (don't have to constantly adjust to point away from the Earth), which I expect are the biggest power draws on Hubble.

If we assume a 150 year lifetime, with a 3kW draw by EOL and current RTG tech... RTGs have ~6% efficiency, so for 3kW electricity, you need 50kW in heat. RTG electricity output drops ~2% per year, so after 150 years, you have 5% of the initial electrical output, and you get ~0.57W/g of Pu-238. Meaning, you need ~600kg of it to power the telescope this way [https://www.mathscinotes.com/2012/01/nuclear-battery-math/].

That's not a politically feasible amount, but it's not technically impossible with current/near future tech whose development could be spurred on by serious interest in this kind of mission.

'Proper' fission reactors can also do the job, you get higher efficiency and don't have to run the reactors for the entire 150 years besides accounting for decay (e.g. an RTG that needs to provide enough power to keep some clocks running, the electronics and batteries warm, and trigger whatever mechanism would start up the reactor). Probably less than 100kg of Pu-238 just by better reactor efficiency.

replies(3): >>44402372 #>>44402566 #>>44403987 #
ycui1986 ◴[] No.44402372[source]
i don't think modern semiconductor device will last more than 100 years, even without all the radiation. making something last more than a few decades is very hard.
replies(2): >>44404822 #>>44406337 #
1. le-mark ◴[] No.44404822[source]
Does encasing electronics in lead help against high energy cosmic rays? With cheap kg to orbit one could assume the mass budget would be large.
replies(1): >>44413877 #
2. chuckadams ◴[] No.44413877[source]
> Does encasing electronics in lead help against high energy cosmic rays?

Makes them worse unless and until you make the shielding several times thicker than anything you'd be able to launch from the ground. Watched one science program that demonstrated it beautifully where the interviewee stuck several balloons on a board and shot at it with a high-powered rifle, popping just one. Then he stuck a metal plate in front of the balloons and shot it, and the resulting shrapnel popped all the balloons behind it. That's a cosmic ray hitting shielding.

That's also an unsolved problem with any Mars trip. Electronics can be built redundantly to recover from cosmic ray hits. Humans not so much.