←back to thread

The Hollow Men of Hims

(www.alexkesin.com)
208 points quadrin | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.214s | source
Show context
jackdeansmith ◴[] No.44382963[source]
>The real tragedy is not that Hims exists, but that it works so perfectly. Every day, thousands of people choose their compounded weight-loss drugs over FDA-approved alternatives, their combination ED pills over established single-ingredient treatments, their algorithmic consultations over actual medical care. They make these choices not because the products are better, but because the entire experience has been optimized to feel more like shopping and less like confronting the mortality and vulnerability that define the human condition.

Strongly disagree with almost everything in this article, but specifically this. The reason people make these choices is not because of slick marketing working against them, it's because the existing process to get medical treatment is paternalistic, hard to navigate and often expensive.

If you want safe and really high quality medical care you should absolutely have a personal physician you have a personal relationship with, who understands your lifestyle, your risk factors for side effects, and your medical needs deeply. How many Americans have that? Maybe a few dozen? The market has responded to just how terrible the existing system is.

replies(11): >>44383022 #>>44383299 #>>44383303 #>>44383423 #>>44383652 #>>44383766 #>>44384593 #>>44388125 #>>44388421 #>>44390549 #>>44391864 #
jeremy151 ◴[] No.44383423[source]
> If you want safe and really high quality medical care you should absolutely have a personal physician you have a personal relationship with, who understands your lifestyle, your risk factors for side effects, and your medical needs deeply. How many Americans have that? Maybe a few dozen?

A bit of a tangent: I have this here in the US, through a model called Direct Primary Care. I pay $50/mo for a single provider, unlimited visits / communication, and highly discounted labs. She makes house calls on occasion. This doctor is working solely in my interest, and has little concern of insurance, except to help me navigate that system should I need a specialist, prior authorization, etc.

I do worry that it's sustainable, but I think there must by a way to scale up this practice of the general practitioner working in the interest of the patient.

My previous doctor was part of a large health system, who also happens to be directly associated with the large regional insurance provider whom my employer supplied to me without another choice. Every 8 minute visit centered around insurance and billing, with my health seeming to be a distant second. It seemed every visit had to end in some kind of prescription or referral, arrived at quickly and without much discussion. It quickly became clear they were not working in my interest, and I sought other options, eventually landing on the Direct Primary Care model. Now I have full 1 hour visits, and someone who seeks to understand what is happening for me completely, not through the lens of a payer.

replies(7): >>44383514 #>>44383568 #>>44383649 #>>44383708 #>>44383934 #>>44383987 #>>44385372 #
bongodongobob ◴[] No.44383568[source]
$50 + health insurance? I saw my PCP after my health insurance had unknowingly lapsed and a physical was ~$1k with just some basic blood work.
replies(1): >>44384386 #
jjcob ◴[] No.44384386[source]
How people justify paying $1000 for probably less than 15 minutes of work is beyond me.
replies(3): >>44384465 #>>44385428 #>>44391408 #
sokoloff ◴[] No.44385428[source]
That included lab work, talking to the front desk people, the nurse who took the blood, the GP, the drivers, the janitors, the record-keepers, the lab techs, and the calibration work on equipment and who knows who else.

That is way, way more than 15 minutes of work.

replies(2): >>44385845 #>>44386798 #
jjcob ◴[] No.44385845[source]
I recently got a physical exam, including ultra sound, two urine samples, and bloodwork, at a private doctor in Austria and it cost 150€. You Americans are crazy.

I'm not sure how a physical would be more than 15 minutes of work. Lab techs? Standard blood tests are all automated, the most complicated part is putting the stickers on the vials. Yes, someone needs to calibrate the machine, but the machine processes 1000s of samples per day. I just checked, the price for a standard blood panel at a local lab is 14€. It's really not a complicated procedure.

Drivers? Janitors? What the hell are you paying those guys to justify a $1000 bill? And you really don't need to hire a driver to get a box of samples to the lab at the end of the day.

replies(2): >>44386434 #>>44391168 #
1. com2kid ◴[] No.44391168[source]
Americans can order their own lab tests for pretty cheap as well. In regards to pricing, the overhead for billing is about 1/3rd of the price, though not relevant in the poster's situation. It is part of why some prices here are so inflated though.

If a patient goes to see their doctor at a major hospital, part of that bill goes to pay for uninsured patients in the ER. Hospitals in the US by law have to treat everyone who come to the emergency room, which results in a lot of losses for hospitals that they have to make up for by charging higher prices on other services.

> And you really don't need to hire a driver to get a box of samples to the lab at the end of the day.

Smaller doctor's offices do their labs offsite, in the US just a couple of companies do the majority of blood work, as part of the contract with the lab, a driver comes by and picks up samples. In the great name of outsourcing, I imagine this driver works for a separate company as well, so now there is 2x outsourcing overhead, once for the lab, and again for the transport company. For doctor's offices that cannot justify their own lab, this makes some sense.

FWIW in my city at least, the majority of doctors are affiliated with large hospitals. They either work in a large hospital, in a satellite campus, or have an affiliate relationship (which from what I can tell just means medical records are automatically transferred over).

I go to a "smaller" office, it is a 3 story campus that is the satellite office of a huge hospital nearby. They do some of their own lab work and outsource other stuff. The hospital network is publicly owned and accordingly much nicer to deal with than many of the horror stories I hear online and from friends. (also the prices are reasonable and they always give me a price sheet up front of what everything will cost, which isn't always the case for some doctors...)

> I just checked, the price for a standard blood panel at a local lab is 14€. It's really not a complicated procedure.

Is that a 100% unsubsidized price?

In the US, cash price for a Comprehensive metabolic panel (CMP) is just $50. The same labs that the hospitals outsource to actually offer direct to consumer tests at really reasonable rates.

I just checked my hospitals cash rates:

A yearly checkup for an existing patient is $48.

Lab work is $48 (a $2 discount!)

Urine tests are another $20.

So in summary, OP got ripped off by their doctor's office.