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523 points sva_ | 39 comments | | HN request time: 1.552s | source | bottom
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testfoobar ◴[] No.44314177[source]
Outside of just wanting privacy for its own sake, there are many, many reasons to keep social media profiles private: health privacy, sexual orientation privacy, relationship privacy, location privacy, financial privacy, etc.

“To facilitate this vetting, all applicants for F, M and J non-immigrant visas will be asked to adjust the privacy settings on all their social media profiles to ‘public’”, the official said.

replies(4): >>44314266 #>>44314635 #>>44315092 #>>44315430 #
1. Mountain_Skies ◴[] No.44314266[source]
Much of the world is against LBGTQ+ rights. If an immigrant has social media posts expressing open hatred and even calls for violence against people with sexual orientations not approved of in their home culture, will you still have an open mind about welcoming them in the US with open arms?

This isn't theoretical. Both China and India, the two countries that supply the most students to the US, prohibit marriage equality. Both have extensive discrimination throughout their societies, both at the government and cultural levels.

replies(8): >>44314297 #>>44314298 #>>44314330 #>>44314358 #>>44314382 #>>44314615 #>>44314676 #>>44316550 #
2. digianarchist ◴[] No.44314297[source]
Right. That’s what these new powers will be used for. To defend LGBT folks in the United States. /s
replies(2): >>44314517 #>>44315506 #
3. sundaeofshock ◴[] No.44314298[source]
Yes. I wouldn’t be happy they hold those views, but I don’t support basing a person’s entry into the US on how the feel about Donald Trump.

Of course, your scenario is a big ol’ straw person, as those beliefs are not what they are screening for.

replies(2): >>44314327 #>>44314346 #
4. dmoy ◴[] No.44314327[source]
It might not be what the US is screening for, but if you're forced to make your account public, not just to the US, then your own government would also know.
replies(2): >>44314965 #>>44315785 #
5. ◴[] No.44314330[source]
6. bastardoperator ◴[] No.44314346[source]
This isn't a screening process, it's a deterrent.
7. kennywinker ◴[] No.44314358[source]
Until 2015 gay marriage was illegal in many states. Plenty here hold pretty nasty anti lgbtq beliefs. This is a bad argument for screening visa applicants for beliefs, and not what this new rule will be used for. It will be used to deny anyone critical of israeli genocide, people who think we shouldn’t destroy the planet’s climate, and people who think women should control their own bodies.
replies(2): >>44315220 #>>44315733 #
8. frollogaston ◴[] No.44314382[source]
To answer your question, yes those people should be welcome, yes I'm ok with people coming from China and India.
9. derektank ◴[] No.44314517[source]
Obviously not by this administration, but if we are creating new powers, the question of the principle is relevant and its potential use by a Democratic administration is also relevant.

I, personally, don't see a problem with creating an ideological test for certain kinds of visa holders or permanent residents. As Karl Popper noted in outlining the paradox of tolerance, unlimited tolerance can lead to the destruction of tolerance itself. I think it's worth exploring ways for the government to prevent enemies of liberalism from entering the country, even if we already face illiberalism at home.

That being said, I think this specific proposal threatens personal privacy far too much to be justified.

replies(3): >>44315177 #>>44315345 #>>44316960 #
10. UncleMeat ◴[] No.44314615[source]
The only students who've ever called me a homophobic slur were born in the US.
replies(2): >>44315013 #>>44315097 #
11. bigyabai ◴[] No.44314676[source]
Many Americans have never seriously looked at a map before. Should they be categorically denied entry to foreign countries for their stereotypical ignorance?

Here in America, you can't put someone on trial for a crime they haven't committed. Even if you think they're from a suspicious country. That's called racial profiling, and it's forbidden by civil rights laws for a reason; nobody should have to tolerate the indignation of their peer's stupidity.

replies(4): >>44314793 #>>44315056 #>>44315196 #>>44315217 #
12. Freedom2 ◴[] No.44314793[source]
> Here in America, you can't put someone on trial for a crime they haven't committed

Actually in the US you can - it's why there's stories of innocent men and women being released from jail after other evidence proves their innocence (eg: DNA).

replies(1): >>44315034 #
13. thfuran ◴[] No.44314965{3}[source]
Yes, that's part of why it's a bad idea.
14. dullcrisp ◴[] No.44315013[source]
I’m sure we can still deport them to El Salvador.
15. bigyabai ◴[] No.44315034{3}[source]
That's exactly why they're being released, though. If you manufacture a bogus case or plant evidence against someone, that's not probable cause. You're not acting within the acceptable norms of a just society, and the rectification of these cases is proof. Oftentimes the falsely persecuted will countersue, especially if they get an early injunction.
replies(1): >>44326845 #
16. recursive ◴[] No.44315056[source]
If we know someone has committed the crime before the trial, we could really streamline the judicial process.
17. eddythompson80 ◴[] No.44315097[source]
Man, I'm sorry to tell you. But you must not have been around the world much.
replies(3): >>44315398 #>>44315720 #>>44317457 #
18. scarecrowbob ◴[] No.44315177{3}[source]
I dunno, I think it's not super great that I might not be able to pass an ideological test to get into my own damn country. Why do they get to say that what I believe isn't "American".

Like, I'm "Texas from Texas"- my anglo ancestors go back before the 1836 revolution.

But I'm not a racist so I have often been told that I'm "not really from Texas".

It's the same vibe here. I'm way more worried about the fact that they wouldn't let me back into the country if I had to pass an ideological litmus test than I am worried that someone with illiberal beliefs is going to join the other theocrats in Texas.

19. lurk2 ◴[] No.44315196[source]
> you can't put someone on trial for a crime they haven't committed.

What do you think happened in a trial where a not guilty verdict is reached?

20. andsoitis ◴[] No.44315217[source]
> > Should they be categorically denied entry to foreign countries for their stereotypical ignorance?

You missed this bit that parent said:

"If an immigrant has social media posts expressing open hatred and even calls for violence against people with sexual orientations not approved of in their home culture, will you still have an open mind about welcoming them in the US with open arms?"

21. andsoitis ◴[] No.44315220[source]
> This is a bad argument for screening visa applicants for beliefs, and not what this new rule will be used for.

And do you think permanent residency or citizen applicants should be screened for their beliefs?

replies(1): >>44315384 #
22. riffraff ◴[] No.44315345{3}[source]
Are you really advocating for 1984's thoughtpolice?

If someone has "bad" ideas and they keep them to themselves by having private social media accounts, it's crazy to think it's a risk to society.

Countries already have rules to deal with hate speech, inciting riots, etc.

23. dlahoda ◴[] No.44315384{3}[source]
it was for visa while ago

https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2012/dec/07/einstein...

even for jewish nobel laureats in physics

why it should be different for more serious things like residence or citizenship?

24. BLKNSLVR ◴[] No.44315506[source]
Well, to me, it sounds as if the ban on LGBT folks joining the armed forces is a kind of protection of LGBT folks, especially given the world seems to be moving towards an inevitable near-future in which US forces will be deployed to Canada, Greenland, Panama, Iran, Russia (to protect it from invasion by Ukraine and/or Europe), Gaza (to protect the construction of Trump's Oasis on the Mediterranean), Taiwan.

Non-LGBT front line.

25. JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.44315720{3}[source]
> you must not have been around the world much

Gay man here. Multi-ethnic, world travelled.

American evangelicals are up there with the mullahs in opposing both free society and everything Christ preached.

replies(1): >>44317217 #
26. mahirsaid ◴[] No.44315785{3}[source]
They will most likely force FAANG to disclose this anyway. Some of which already have contracts with that country that is at war.
27. disgruntledphd2 ◴[] No.44316017{3}[source]
What do you call what's happening in Gaza then?
replies(1): >>44316156 #
28. kennywinker ◴[] No.44316053{3}[source]
“Curate” away the 4k footage of children, doctors, refugee camps being bombed, aid blockades starving people? Must be nice to have your head in the sand like that. Quibble over the word genocide all you want - it is very clearly a genocide unfolding in front of us.
replies(1): >>44316186 #
29. sibhezt ◴[] No.44316156{4}[source]
A war, an armed conflict. Started by Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups against Israel, on October 7th 2023.
replies(1): >>44316630 #
30. sibhezt ◴[] No.44316186{4}[source]
This is not a genocide. It is a war. A war started by Hamas and other Palestinian terrorist groups on October 7th 2023.
replies(2): >>44319372 #>>44319708 #
31. voidUpdate ◴[] No.44316550[source]
I mean, given the current political climate, I think someone with posts like that would be welcomed easily, and people who are pro LGBT, especially pro-trans, would be denied outright
32. disgruntledphd2 ◴[] No.44316630{5}[source]
If it's an armed conflict then it started a long time before that. Otherwise Israel wouldn't have built the hilariously named "Freedom Wall".

It's incredibly depressing that the Jewish people have basically done unto others as was done to them. Even if we don't consider it a genocide, then it's definitely a pogrom and Gaza and the West Bank are ghettos. I would have hoped that at least one people might have learned that this kind of stuff is wrong based on their own history.

But i guess all that we learn from history is that no-one learns from history.

33. TheOtherHobbes ◴[] No.44316960{3}[source]
To add some nuance to Popper's argument, the implication is that intolerance means violence against others.

People can believe whatever they like as long as they don't become a movement dedicated to murdering those they don't like.

Historically, observably, and objectively, the US right has much more of a history with political murder than the left does.

This isn't some ideological purity test about "liberalism". This is about maintaining a culture that supports a broad spectrum of views in a peaceful way.

When the state itself crosses that line the state itself becomes oppressive, and would-be residents should be asking themselves whether that's the kind of state they want to live in, or visit.

34. throwaway290 ◴[] No.44317217{4}[source]
Your comparison of Muslims and American evangelicals has self selecting bias. There are places where non straight orientation is punishable by law or extrajudicially. Maybe they call you homophobic slurs but you might not walk to tell the tale. None of those places are Catholic as far as I know. One or two of them bordering Israel. In Russia if it's not done by Muslim extremists than by fascists/activists or by government classifying LGBT as extremism. (This is not anti Russian propaganda, it's in the laws. I lived in Russia for most of my life and I met let me count... zero gay people that I know of. But I know some forever unmarried people, I wonder what's going on;)
replies(1): >>44319409 #
35. UncleMeat ◴[] No.44317457{3}[source]
There are homophobic people all over the world, but the topic of discussion is people coming to the US on student visas.
36. immibis ◴[] No.44319372{5}[source]
If the war started on Oct 7, why were bombs falling on Oct 6, Oct 5 and Oct 4?
37. JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.44319409{5}[source]
> There are places where non straight orientation is punishable by law or extrajudicially

I didn’t mean to suggest the comparison was exhaustive. Just that both those groups, if they had control of a state, would do exactly this. (And when they have had such control, they have. See American evangelical effects on liberty in their African missions.)

38. kennywinker ◴[] No.44319708{5}[source]
This started long before oct 7th, but even if it was started then it wouldn’t make the mass murder and starvation of civilians justified.

Maybe curate your feeds a little better if you actually believe what you’re saying.

39. chrz ◴[] No.44326845{4}[source]
These people spend years in prison before "correcting" that small mistake