Most active commenters

    ←back to thread

    93 points nabla9 | 17 comments | | HN request time: 1.487s | source | bottom
    1. dragonwriter ◴[] No.44089003[source]
    A US invasion, occupation, and political reformation of Iraq to serve as a lever for a pro-US series of regime changes in the Middle East were central ideas of the Project for a New American Century, from which the Bush Administration drew heavily for its defense and foreign policy officials (as well as VP.)
    replies(3): >>44089236 #>>44089668 #>>44122481 #
    2. somenameforme ◴[] No.44089236[source]
    This is 100% it, but this goes far beyond just Bush or Iraq. If you ever want to understand what's really happening in US geopolitics, their paper, Rebuilding America's Defenses [1], is critical reading. It describes every motivation, goal, and purpose with 0 effort to fluff it up for public. This absolutely transcends parties as well. It is the position of the US political establishment. For instance Robert Kagan is the founder of the Project for the New American Century and his wife is Victoria Nuland who served as deputy head of state under Biden.

    It's not easy to give cliff notes, because there's too much to say. But in general, this was at the time when the USSR had still only relatively recently fallen and the US was not only essentially the king of the world, but had 0 meaningful competition for said claim. The goal of PNAC, and of the US political establishment, was to take this scenario, expand it, and perpetuate it. So the primary point was to prevent the rise of any other power and to essentially dominate the world primarily through being seen as the unquestioned premier military power, which would entail dramatic increases in military spending, regular demonstrations of power including preemptive and unilateral attacks on other countries if necessary, and so forth, wrapped in a tidy package of 'spreading democracy and freedom.'

    Most famously they acknowledged that all of their goals would be quite difficult without, in their own words, something like a new Pearl Harbor: "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event—like a new Pearl Harbor." 9/11 happened less than a year later, and everything went into overdrive, a trend that continued long after Bush was but a fading memory.

    [1] - https://archive.org/details/RebuildingAmericasDefenses

    replies(3): >>44091262 #>>44093711 #>>44094714 #
    3. rich_sasha ◴[] No.44089668[source]
    Methods aside, it is funny how quickly Republicans went from "we want to rule the whole world" to "we want nothing to do with the world and btw, foreigners get out".
    replies(1): >>44089895 #
    4. brookst ◴[] No.44089895[source]
    Now they just want to annex Canada and Greenland, and hand over the US’s role in UN, WHO, and economic development to China.
    replies(1): >>44091710 #
    5. HaZeust ◴[] No.44091262[source]
    Solid comment. The more I read into these geopolitical pretexts, the more I think the U.S. government didn't orchestrate 9/11 - but that they allowed it to happen.
    6. swat535 ◴[] No.44091710{3}[source]
    How realistic is the idea of the U.S. annexing Canada, and what would that even look like in practice?

    Is there any historical, legal, or strategic precedent that would make this even remotely feasible? And given the likely short political shelf life of the current U.S. administration, would any of this outlast the next four years anyway?

    replies(4): >>44093435 #>>44094166 #>>44098399 #>>44099390 #
    7. brookst ◴[] No.44093435{4}[source]
    No, it’s all somewhere between bluster and fantasy. But it speaks to the US oligarchs’ mindset.
    8. MaxPock ◴[] No.44093711[source]
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfowitz_Doctrine
    9. toyg ◴[] No.44094166{4}[source]
    I mean, historical precedents for land grabs abound, but after the 1918 Wilson Doctrine (a US creation, btw) there is nothing. Colonialism is over and blatant imperialism doesn't work; we hold this as self-evident truth.

    Then again, certain governments continue to act like we were still in the XIX century so "might makes right" (Russia, Israel, China, Morocco, Turkey...). If one is not ashamed to be in such an esteemed company, everything is possible.

    replies(1): >>44095179 #
    10. Andaith ◴[] No.44094714[source]
    I thought this was all history, but:

    > Develop and deploy global MISSILE DEFENSES to defend the American homeland and American allies, and to provide a secure basis for U.S. power projection around the world.

    > Control the new “international commons” of space and “cyberspace,” and pave the way for the creation of a new military service - U.S. Space Forces - with the mission of space control.

    They really just kept at it, huh. Although this part is interesting:

    > The Joint Strike Fighter, with limited capabilities and significant technical risk, is a roadblock to future transformation and a sink-hole for needed defense funds.

    Wonder why it wasn't cancelled then? Change of mind, or just too many greased palms?

    replies(2): >>44095567 #>>44102887 #
    11. janalsncm ◴[] No.44095179{5}[source]
    Given that this is about the invasion of Iraq, I wouldn’t exclude the US from that list.
    12. looofooo0 ◴[] No.44095567{3}[source]
    Meanwhile, they outsourced manufacturing to China, which is kind of insane. China builds 100x ships then the US. Add drones, steel, telecommunication, batteries, renewable to it...
    13. michael1999 ◴[] No.44098399{4}[source]
    Recent history tells that once one moron US president decides to start an illegal war, both parties are happy to continue it for a couple of decades.
    replies(1): >>44108371 #
    14. ben_w ◴[] No.44099390{4}[source]
    > How realistic is the idea of the U.S. annexing Canada, and what would that even look like in practice?

    They've tried twice already, the second time the Canadians (/British at the time) burned down the White House: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_Washington

    15. jazzyjackson ◴[] No.44102887{3}[source]
    Re: joint strike fighter: the money pit is essentially a subsidy for many sitting congressmens’ re election campaigns.
    16. michael1999 ◴[] No.44108371{5}[source]
    Iraq is a country: - with 45 million people - speaking languages other than english - a quarter of the way around the world - next to Iran and Turkey who could spoil US operations

    And Bush still destroyed it with ease. The idea that the USA couldn't annex Canada by force is just silly.

    We'd fight, and slit your throats in the dark. But there are some of us who'd just roll over, or welcome you with open arms. Just look at the morons in Alberta talking USA annexation -- they're probably 10% of the population. That's enough for a Quisling regime.

    17. subpixel ◴[] No.44122481[source]
    Also, there was palpable excitement in the media and everyone wanted to be a part of the big story.

    I was in the offices of WNET/Channel 13 in Manhattan the day the news began moving among insiders that an invasion of Iraq was imminent. All these middle aged producers were stoked. If that was PBS you can only imagine what the vibe was like everywhere else.

    Of course within a week people like this and their reporters were basically competing to get “embedded” with invading troops and tell an approved story. Wild times.