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Finland announces migration of its rail network to international gauge

(yle.fi)
461 points axelfontaine | 10 comments | 20 May 25 07:40 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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vesinisa ◴[20 May 25 08:26 UTC] No.44039149[source]▶
Here's a much better article from the Finnish public broadcaster giving more context: https://yle.fi/a/74-20161606

My comments:

The important thing to note that at this point it's just a political posturing and an announcement of intent. They haven't shown any concrete technical plan how this would actually be executed.

> "Of course, we are very pragmatic and realistic, we cannot do this in five years. Planning will continue until the end of the decade, and maybe in 2032 we can start construction."

Once they have the cost estimates and effects on existing rail traffic studied, I bet construction will never start.

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sbuttgereit ◴[20 May 25 11:05 UTC] No.44040123[source]▶
On the other hand....

"Unification to standard gauge on May 31 – June 1, 1886 [United States]

In 1886, the southern railroads agreed to coordinate changing gauge on all their tracks. After considerable debate and planning, most of the southern rail network was converted from 5 ft (1,524 mm) gauge to 4 ft 9 in (1,448 mm) gauge, then the standard of the Pennsylvania Railroad, over two days beginning on Monday, May 31, 1886. Over a period of 36 hours, tens of thousands of workers pulled the spikes from the west rail of all the broad gauge lines in the South, moved them 3 in (76 mm) east and spiked them back in place.[6] The new gauge was close enough that standard gauge equipment could run on it without problem. By June 1886, all major railroads in North America, an estimated 11,500 miles (18,500 km), were using approximately the same gauge. To facilitate the change, the inside spikes had been hammered into place at the new gauge in advance of the change. Rolling stock was altered to fit the new gauge at shops and rendezvous points throughout the South. The final conversion to true standard gauge took place gradually as part of routine track maintenance.[6] Now, the only broad-gauge rail tracks in the United States are on some city transit systems."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_gauge_in_the_United_Stat...

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DocTomoe[dead post] ◴[20 May 25 12:54 UTC] No.44041027[source]▶
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lazide ◴[20 May 25 14:46 UTC] No.44042244[source]▶
'86, in the south? Let's not be racist and assume the labor was Chinese - surely it was 95% recently freed black slaves paid almost nothing + 'free' prison labor. (/s, a little).
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1. firesteelrain ◴[20 May 25 14:57 UTC] No.44042367[source]▶
This was 20 years after the Civil War. It consisted mostly of skilled and semi-skilled workers laborers that were White, African American and other immigrant labor. Chinese laborers were mostly concentrated in the West not the South. The reconstruction of the southern rail network involved many people who were part of the Southern economy and employment structure at that time
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2. lazide ◴[20 May 25 15:26 UTC] No.44042681[source]▶
I believe that’s what I said.
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3. firesteelrain ◴[20 May 25 15:32 UTC] No.44042749[source]▶
"'86, in the south? Let's not be racist and assume the labor was Chinese - surely it was 95% recently freed black slaves paid almost nothing + 'free' prison labor. (/s, a little)."

It's not what you said

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4. rz2k ◴[20 May 25 16:10 UTC] No.44043204[source]▶
1886 is after The Compromise of 1877 which ended Reconstruction and lead to the rise of largely white supremacist Redeemer governments.

Though versions of the Convict Lease System had started earlier, even before the Civil War, it was in full force by 1886 and even accounted for a significant portion of many states’ annual revenue.

The supply of this labor was dramatically influenced by new laws that were selectively enforced, such as vagrancy laws that might apply to anyone traveling without immediate proof that they had an employer, “pig laws” that made petty thefts often convicted with poor standards of proof subject to extended prison sentences, and in some cases offenses like “mischief” and “insulting gestures”. There were even people who were impressed into this system as a result of violating the terms of a labor contract, which possibly becomes even more difficult to distinguish from slavery.

If you were caught up in this system, you were virtually powerless. Federal troops were long gone, there were instances of lawfully elected governments that had been overthrown by insurrection, and if you exposed the absurdity of this system and threatened it, you could easily be publicly lynched with no chance of repercussions for your murderers.

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5. firesteelrain ◴[20 May 25 21:43 UTC] No.44046225[source]▶
Ah yes, the 'absurdity' of enforcing laws and contracts; how dare a post-war society try to reestablish order without the constant supervision of federal troops. And of course, 'insulting gestures' clearly the backbone of any sinister system of oppression. It's amazing anything functioned at all without a daily constitutional check-in from the moral high ground
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6. lazide ◴[21 May 25 06:27 UTC] No.44048820{3}[source]▶
I’m pretty sure that’s exactly what I said, actually.

[https://www.train-museum.org/2019/02/18/black-railroad-jobs/]

Which part do you think I didn’t?

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7. lazide ◴[21 May 25 09:12 UTC] No.44049644{3}[source]▶
Those do-gooder Yankees and their war of northern oppression, amiright? (/s)
8. firesteelrain ◴[21 May 25 11:38 UTC] No.44050356{4}[source]▶
I made a more nuanced and historically grounded point, whereas your post was a sarcastic oversimplification. So no — you didn't say what I said. I emphasized the diversity and complexity of postbellum labor in the South; you gave a glib summary that oversimplifies it as mostly “recently freed black slaves paid almost nothing + ‘free’ prison labor.”
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9. lazide ◴[21 May 25 12:50 UTC] No.44050932{5}[source]▶
Your point is flat out misrepresenting the situation. Especially by listing White workers first. At that time, the only white workers in the south who would have been moving rail and driving spikes would have been on a prison work detail or in a similar severely legally compromised situation. Even getting white workers to couple cars didn’t happen until much later.
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10. firesteelrain ◴[21 May 25 20:55 UTC] No.44056237{6}[source]▶
Again, you didn’t say what I said. I described a complex labor force with various roles and racial backgrounds. You gave a sarcastic oversimplification, and now you’re shifting to a narrower historical claim that contradicts your own original tone.

“Even getting white workers to couple cars didn’t happen until much later”

That’s an overstatement. While Black workers were indeed disproportionately given dangerous roles like coupling cars in the South, it wasn’t unheard of for white laborers - especially poor or immigrant - to do that work too

The labor structure wasn’t as racially absolute as you’re implying