←back to thread

Pope Francis has died

(www.reuters.com)
916 points phillipharris | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.216s | source
Show context
carlos-menezes ◴[] No.43749613[source]
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2025-04/pope-francis...

> According to Archbishop Diego Ravelli, Master of Apostolic Ceremonies, the late Pope Francis had requested that the funeral rites be simplified and focused on expressing the faith of the Church in the Risen Body of Christ.

Always struck me as a simple man and that likely contributed to people liking him more when compared to his predecessors. RIP.

replies(7): >>43749684 #>>43749955 #>>43750069 #>>43751768 #>>43752084 #>>43757136 #>>43757837 #
keepamovin ◴[] No.43749955[source]
I thought the film the Two Popes gave a good overview of his life and perspective.
replies(1): >>43750605 #
gortok ◴[] No.43750605[source]
It’s important to note that The Two Popes was a drama, and not a true factual story.

It fictionalizes and sensationalizes some details; and that’s ok because its purpose is to make you feel exactly the way you feel about it.

Pope Francis was a wonderful steward of Christianity and espoused the virtues that anyone would want to see in their religious leaders: humility, grace, an openness to listen and a strong voice against even prelates in his own church that are xenophobic or nationalistic. He wanted us to welcome all and to live as the bible said Jesus did.

The fear I have is that each swing of the pendulum goes in two directions. He was far more “liberal” than the conservative Catholic prelates of the USCCB, and I fear his actions — including rightfully limiting the Latin mass, will force the church to swing in the other direction and give in to the illiberal forces that divide us.

replies(2): >>43750672 #>>43750950 #
ralfd ◴[] No.43750950[source]
> including rightfully limiting the Latin mass

Why is that a political thing though? The mass of the roman church was for centuries (almost all it’s history?) in latin.

replies(3): >>43751065 #>>43753264 #>>43753387 #
gortok ◴[] No.43751065[source]
Indeed; and when the Second Vatican Council decided Mass should be said in the vernacular, the obligation of the Church was to follow. Instead, the conservatives of the church ('conservative' here means those that emphasize adhering to tradition and are adverse to change) created a rift by eschewing this change and even heightening the importance of the Latin Mass, creating the impression that a mass spoken in the local language was somehow less of a mass.

If you’re Catholic, suggesting that a mass spoken in one language over another is somehow "less" takes away from the most important idea of the Mass: reenacting Christ’s Last supper commandment and the institution of the Holy Eucharist for what amounts to word games.

This divisive description of the mass increased over the decades, to the point that it threatened to cause a schism. As such it was the Holy Father’s duty to resolve the issue.

replies(3): >>43751277 #>>43752286 #>>43753254 #
gambiting ◴[] No.43751277[source]
There are still groups(at least I'm aware of them in Poland, I've met people who are part of them) who believe exactly this, that the second Vatican Sobor was a mistake and the "real" mass is only the one conducted in Latin.
replies(1): >>43753030 #
amanaplanacanal ◴[] No.43753030[source]
It seems unlikely that Jesus spoke Latin at the last supper.
replies(4): >>43753271 #>>43753378 #>>43760290 #>>43766629 #
aredox ◴[] No.43760290[source]
It was certainly not in Latin. It was either in Hebrew of in Greek.

The focus on latin is a pure nitpicking and virtue signaling from the Conservatives (the irony!).

replies(1): >>43760462 #
1. skissane ◴[] No.43760462[source]
> It was certainly not in Latin. It was either in Hebrew of in Greek.

I think it was very likely mostly Aramaic, possibly with some Hebrew mixed in (certain set prayers, with Torah readings in Hebrew followed by extemporaneous Aramaic translation). By the 1st century, Jews had abandoned Hebrew as an everyday tongue, a situation which didn't change until Zionists revived it in the late 19th century (which caused great controversy, since the traditional Jewish belief was that Hebrew is a holy language which should be reserved for religious purposes only, a position still maintained by most non-Israeli ultra-Orthodox to this day.)

Putting aside any claims of supernatural linguistic abilities, Jesus of Nazareth would likely have been fluent in Aramaic (his native tongue), competent in using Hebrew for certain religious purposes (but not as a language of everyday life), possibly some limited ability in Greek (but probably not fluent), maybe a few words of Latin (but very unlikely to be fluent).

> The focus on latin is a pure nitpicking and virtue signaling from the Conservatives (the irony!).

The majority of TLM (Traditional Latin Mass) adherents care more about keeping the traditional Tridentine (pre-Vatican II) liturgy than about Latin in itself – Catholic priests are allowed to say the contemporary Mass in Latin (subject to certain conditions), but there is rather little demand for it.