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178 points wglb | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0.239s | source
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worldsayshi ◴[] No.43747529[source]
How comparable is the intelligence of crows, dolphins, octopi and non human apes? Somewhat or not at all? There seem to be a host of things that each of those can do. Can apes do all of those things and the other groups just a few things each? Is there a huge leap of separation or does the leap come between us and them? Is it in any way quantifiable?
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ninetyninenine ◴[] No.43747755[source]
A lot of it comes from communication. We don't know how intelligent some of these things are simply because we can't communicate with them.

For apes and gorillas we can communicate. We've taught them sign language so we know hands down in terms of language we beat them. But for dolphins and octopi, we just don't really know.

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smcl ◴[] No.43747802[source]
We have not taught apes sign language. They can learn and form crude signs and use them to respond to stimuli or for rewards (wanting an orange, for example) but they’re not meaningfully communicating. It’d be like me claiming I taught my dog English because he can press the little button that plays a sound of me saying “biscuit!” when he wants a treat (which you have to take away from him because he will just mash it, since dogs want dog biscuits).
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1. Loughla ◴[] No.43747935[source]
Isn't that what communication is?
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2. AIPedant ◴[] No.43747990[source]
In a squishy philosophical sense, I think LLMs are doomed to hallucination/confabulation because we’re making systems that use language and hoping they figure out the basics of communication. That certainly is not how it works in humans:

> Did I not, then, as I grew out of infancy, come next to boyhood, or rather did it not come to me and succeed my infancy? My infancy did not go away (for where would it go?). It was simply no longer present; and I was no longer an infant who could not speak, but now a chattering boy. I remember this, and I have since observed how I learned to speak. My elders did not teach me words by rote, as they taught me my letters afterward. But I myself, when I was unable to communicate all I wished to say to whomever I wished by means of whimperings and grunts and various gestures of my limbs (which I used to reinforce my demands), I myself repeated the sounds already stored in my memory by the mind which thou, O my God, hadst given me. When they called some thing by name and pointed it out while they spoke, I saw it and realized that the thing they wished to indicate was called by the name they then uttered. And what they meant was made plain by the gestures of their bodies, by a kind of natural language, common to all nations, which expresses itself through changes of countenance, glances of the eye, gestures and intonations which indicate a disposition and attitude--either to seek or to possess, to reject or to avoid. So it was that by frequently hearing words, in different phrases, I gradually identified the objects which the words stood for and, having formed my mouth to repeat these signs, I was thereby able to express my will. Thus I exchanged with those about me the verbal signs by which we express our wishes and advanced deeper into the stormy fellowship of human life, depending all the while upon the authority of my parents and the behest of my elders.

(From the Confessions of St. Augustine)

3. dpig_ ◴[] No.43748637[source]
In the sense that my cat communicates by meowing at me when it's dinner time, sure. But so far I don't think apes are signing about remembered events, future plans, or descriptions of non-immediate reality.
4. smcl ◴[] No.43749523[source]
Maybe, but then my dog also communicates with me via his “biscuit” button so mere “communication” isn’t a particularly high bar. I was disputing the “we’ve taught them sign language” part - because we haven’t, we’ve taught them signs and they try to use some of them. That is impressive and interesting but we shouldn’t oversell it