Most active commenters
  • Aurornis(3)

←back to thread

263 points paulpauper | 16 comments | | HN request time: 0.839s | source | bottom
Show context
meindnoch ◴[] No.43716014[source]
Well, yeah. Adipocytes multiply when you get fat. But when you lose weight, they don't apoptose, they just shrink in volume by giving up their lipid stores.
replies(9): >>43716298 #>>43716397 #>>43716434 #>>43717202 #>>43717271 #>>43718150 #>>43718679 #>>43719464 #>>43721227 #
Aurornis ◴[] No.43718150[source]
Similar adaptions occur in muscle. The extent of new muscle fiber development (hyperplasia) is debated, so there are multiples factors influencing how muscle retains some memory of past strength ability.

Once you’ve reached a level of physical strength it’s easier to return to that level in the future. This has been a topic of debate in the sports world because past anabolic steroid use could therefore carry benefits into the future long after the athlete has stopped using the steroid. Non-professional athletes shouldn’t get too excited about using steroids, though, because the damage steroids do to the body’s own hormone systems also has lasting effects unless you plan on doing TRT for the rest of your life, which has its own downsides.

For average people this does show the importance of getting at least some exercise when you’re young. It’s much easier to get a little bit fit when you’re young which then makes it easier to stay fit in the future. Never too late too start.

replies(6): >>43718213 #>>43719078 #>>43719243 #>>43719277 #>>43720033 #>>43723755 #
1. ben7799 ◴[] No.43718213[source]
I can't remember exactly what I was listening to, maybe some kind of NPR podcast.

But the doctor was mentioning that none of the influencers influencing young people to try T and Steroids (which is rampant right now) are ever mentioning that you are on a ticking clock to infertility as soon as you start this stuff. Some people can regain their fertility but it might take years, and some people are going to be permanently infertile even staying on HRT.

Plenty of those "alpha male" guys on social media are shooting blanks.

replies(5): >>43718502 #>>43718768 #>>43718834 #>>43719095 #>>43720023 #
2. ◴[] No.43718502[source]
3. joncrane ◴[] No.43718768[source]
This is interesting because about 20 or so years ago when I was super into bodybuilding, you couldn't talk about a "cycle" on a bodybuilding forum without talking about a "post cycle protocol."

I know that's different than permanent TRT but I feel like you couldn't get very far researching that stuff without understanding that you natural test production (and sperm production) would get "shut down" as soon as you started adding exogenous androgens.

replies(1): >>43718868 #
4. Aurornis ◴[] No.43718834[source]
Testicular atrophy and HPT axis suppression is a thoroughly documented side effect of TRT and steroids. Even beginner bodybuilders know that taking steroids will crush their natural testosterone production. They can kind of bring it back by taking short courses and using certain medications after the cycle, but most discover that some permanent damage is being done with each cycle.

There are two problems with framing it as an infertility problem:

1 - It reduces fertility but many users retain some fertility. The bigger problem for most is that natural testosterone production won't come back to the same level if they ever discontinue, so they're on it for life. Managing testosterone injections every week or multiple times per week for the rest of your life is doable but a pain, especially if you have to travel or you're not the best at keeping up with prescriptions. There are also ups and downs and side effects that come from artificial testosterone dosing. Many people are surprised to discover that after the first year or two they don't feel "great" any more and it's just back to where they started, but with a lifetime dependency now. Others get serious side effects like Gynecomastia (breast growth in men, possibly requiring surgery) or secondary hormonal alterations that negatively impact mood, cognition, or libido.

2 - Many young men in their 20s or even teens see infertility as a positive rather than a negative. It's very common for people of this age to think they've made up their mind for life, but they have yet to even have a serious relationship or even know any peers with kids. People who work in fertility fields are starting to see a lot of men who went into TRT or steroids when they were young because they thought the consequences would never be a problem for them.

> Plenty of those "alpha male" guys on social media are shooting blanks.

Honestly, they don't care. I skim the testosterone subreddits occasionally and many people brag and joke about how small their testicles are.

It's crazy to me to see this shift happening. TRT clinics that advertise on the radio, TikTok, and everywhere else will entice people to come in for "free tests" but the trick is that it doesn't matter what your numbers come back as, they'll always find a way to prescribe you TRT because it's easy recurring revenue for them with lifelong dependence attached.

replies(4): >>43719593 #>>43719737 #>>43720392 #>>43728728 #
5. Aurornis ◴[] No.43718868[source]
Yeah, it's well known that steroids shut you down. The problem with the broscience is that the PCT is talked about like it reverses everything like an antidote, but long-term bodybuilders often end up on TRT because eventually they can't get back to baseline.
replies(1): >>43721169 #
6. loeg ◴[] No.43719095[source]
The big, big problem is heart disease. Infertility might be bad for your family planning, but the high blood pressure will kill you.
7. jjani ◴[] No.43719593[source]
> Honestly, they don't care. I skim the testosterone subreddits occasionally and many people brag and joke about how small their testicles are.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if most of that was coping behavior.

replies(1): >>43721102 #
8. kridsdale1 ◴[] No.43719737[source]
I am a data point of resuscitation of fertility. Confirmed to be shooting blanks after years of juice, and decided to see if I could reactivate by following the broscience (and all the pubmed papers) on the topic.

An aggressive protocol of HCG and HMG (analogues for FSH and LH in the pituitary) reactivated the testes to get back to spermatogenesis and T production after about 5 years of complete dormancy. It took about 4 months of daily needles and well-timed marital conception-attempts. The son I fathered as a result is anecdotally very strong and a voracious eater. My urologist said it sounded like I knew everything I needed to do and was satisfied to let me self-treat.

replies(1): >>43724694 #
9. ◴[] No.43720023[source]
10. cj ◴[] No.43720392[source]
> Even beginner bodybuilders know that taking steroids will crush their natural testosterone production.

Maybe beginner bodybuilders understand this. But I'd argue the average new steroid user is more likely the be un/mis-informed. The average person gets all their information from Instagram/Tiktok/Youtube/Reddit.

But my observation is a lot of people are jumping on gear for purely aesthetic reasons. They are ordering online from research chemical sites and they're almost always not working with a trainer/coach/doctor (vast majority of young people on gear are not doing it under any type of supervision, also means many skip basic necessities like regular bloodwork).

It's much more common for people to jump on gear, experience a negative effect, and then do research afterwards. Which is fine for substances that are relatively benign, but risky when you're messing with your hormones especially at a young age.

replies(1): >>43738987 #
11. gr3ml1n ◴[] No.43721102{3}[source]
What is there to cope about? It's not a big deal, and arguably a benefit.
12. gr3ml1n ◴[] No.43721169{3}[source]
That isn't true. Dedicated bodybuilders, starting more commonly ~5 years ago, decided that PCT wasn't worth it. Instead of typical 16-20 week cycles followed by 4-6 weeks of PCT, they adjust the dose between supraphysiological and (generally) top-of-normal, i.e.: blast and cruise.

It's not because they couldn't recover, it's because they don't want to or see the point.

13. greenavocado ◴[] No.43724694{3}[source]
To clarify, did you try to conceive approximately four times (four months)? Because from what I hear that isn't exactly unheard of in people that aren't on the juice.
replies(1): >>43734040 #
14. 542354234235 ◴[] No.43728728[source]
>It's very common for people of this age to think they've made up their mind for life, but they have yet to even have a serious relationship or even know any peers with kids.

At least it is much less serious than people in the opposite situation, that think they want a child at 19 without understanding the implications.

15. kridsdale1 ◴[] No.43734040{4}[source]
No, it was about a year of multiple attempts per ovulation before I decided to get serious and bring my whole HTPA under control.
16. BigGreenJorts ◴[] No.43738987{3}[source]
I go to a budget gym that is used by a lot of high schoolers and college kids in the evenings. The needle boxes in the bathrooms are full. It's insane.