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191 points docmechanic | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.232s | source
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mattdeboard ◴[] No.43656266[source]
Reinforcing my strongly held belief that what fundamentally sets humans apart isn't spoken language, or tools, or any of that, but rather the fact we write down what we know, then make those writings available to future generations to build on. We're a species distinguished from all others by our information-archival and -dissemination practices. We're an archivist species, a librarian species. Homo archivum. In my opinion.
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contrarian1234 ◴[] No.43657255[source]
By that metric Native Americans are basically animals.. which is problematic.

However arguably humans existed from tens of thousands of years and only really started to make huge technological leaps when writing existed. Prewriting culture is still quite fascinating and complex (ex: Homer or Olmec/Maya art) but it does seem to be stuck at a certain level.

I think Egyptian civilization provides a fascinating mid point where there is writing but it's not very accessible... And Egyptian civilization is slow to develop (it's also very weird they don't have their equivalent of Homer or Gilgamesh)

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fsckboy ◴[] No.43661056[source]
>By that metric Native Americans are basically animals.. which is problematic.

just as it's not problematic to discover that bonobos talk to each other like Shakespeare, it would not be problematic to discover that humans are animals. keep your fingers off the scales (and, to mix a metaphor) let the scales fall from your eyes: it's science, follow the evidence to the truth. Don't be guided by what you want to hear, in either direction.

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Dylan16807 ◴[] No.43670285[source]
You're using a different definition of animal to be contrary. Don't do that.

And "problematic" here means it's racist in a dumb and obviously incorrect manner. We already have plenty of evidence against that idea.

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fsckboy ◴[] No.43685650[source]
humans are animals. this entire topic is "what separates humans from animals--oh, less than we thought".

stop wrapping humanity in the cloak of personification, it's the first [animal] refuge of rats and weasels. also, stop accusing people of racism all the time, it makes me think you are a worse person, not a better one. studying hunter gatherers gives us a lot of important data, and they can't help their race, nor can the researchers, it's an immutable characteristic.

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1. Dylan16807 ◴[] No.43689272[source]
> humans are animals. this entire topic is "what separates humans from animals--oh, less than we thought".

You're using two different definitions of "animal" in the same sentence here. That's only going to cause problems.

> also, stop accusing people of racism all the time, it makes me think you are a worse person, not a better one.

No person was accused of racism. It was a theoretical argument brought up and dismissed in the same sentence, as a rhetorical device to show a problem with a different argument.

> studying hunter gatherers gives us a lot of important data, and they can't help their race, nor can the researchers, it's an immutable characteristic.

But they are not fundamentally set apart and a different species from other humans. And the idea under discussion only works if major groups without writing are fundamentally set apart and a different species.

If the data showed those differences, it would not be racist. But we know those differences don't exist. Humans are all extremely similar.

So the only way someone would think they are fundamentally different is because some neuron misfired in their brain, or they got to that conclusion based on racist teachings or racist reasoning.

And it's more than 99% likely it's the latter. That's enough confidence for me to claim it's a racist idea.

And again, this is based on the actual data, not what anyone wants to be true.