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Leaked data reveals Israeli govt campaign to remove pro-Palestine posts on Meta

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1210 points jbegley | 8 comments | 11 Apr 25 16:24 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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aucisson_masque ◴[11 Apr 25 18:25 UTC] No.43656830[source]▶
I like to think we are in a better place than russia for instance with all its propaganda and jailed journalists, but then i see these kind of article come over and over....

Most of the people in the 'free world' goes on mainstream media, like facebook to get their news. These companies are enticed to 'suck up' to the government because at the end they are business, they need to be in good term with ruling class.

you end up with most media complying with the official story pushed by government and friends, and most people believing that because no one has the time to fact check everything.

One could argue that the difference with russia is that someone can actually look for real information, but even in russia people have access to vpn to bypass the censorship.

Another difference would be that you are allowed to express your opinion, whereas in russia you would be put to jail, that's true but only in a very limited way. Since everyone goes on mainstream media and they enforce the government narrative, you can't speak there. you are merely allowed to speak out in your little corner out of reach to anyone, and even then since most people believe the government propaganda, your arguments won't be heard at all.

The more i think about it, the less difference i see.

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Braxton1980 ◴[12 Apr 25 02:25 UTC] No.43660757[source]▶
>Another difference would be that you are allowed to express your opinion, whereas in russia you would be put to jail, that's true but only in a very limited way.

Although not even close in number and punishment the US government is deporting people for speaking against Israel.

I think we do have a much better system because we are aware of these cases, you can speak out about the issue, and our court system can rule against the current admin.

What makes this possible to either the level of Russia or the US is how much the supporters of the regime want it. This is regardless of morality, legality, or the precedent it sets.

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kurthr ◴[12 Apr 25 05:08 UTC] No.43661534[source]▶
Exactly, it's the "they're the same anyway", "both sides" equivalency that allows the buildup of antidemocratic de-politicization and apathy. This is one of the goals of the _there_is_no_truth_ radicalization that is fundamental to Russian political control
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Retric ◴[12 Apr 25 07:56 UTC] No.43662333[source]▶
Ehh, I’ve got not particular stake in this conflict so it’s really interesting to see how each side is using propaganda and how obvious the propaganda is when you’re not emotionally invested.

Each side is using different tactics to fit the strength of their positions and how well various messages resonate. “They are the same anyway” is useful for a side who wants people to be inactive, it’s not some universal benefit to both parties. Instead each side wants different people to be engaged vs apathetic, which hardly unusual.

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1. Braxton1980 ◴[13 Apr 25 03:29 UTC] No.43669869[source]▶
Are both sides doing all these things in equal amounts?
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2. Retric ◴[13 Apr 25 03:34 UTC] No.43669899[source]▶
No, they don’t have the same strengths but the net effect is similar.
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3. Braxton1980 ◴[13 Apr 25 08:12 UTC] No.43671029[source]▶
How can the net effect be similar if the actions aren't?
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4. Retric ◴[13 Apr 25 10:27 UTC] No.43671720{3}[source]▶
Their goals are similar. There’s lots of different ways of achieving similar ends. I’ve seen a lot more paid commercials from Israel side, but a lot more posts using Palestine’s side talking points.

Same way you can build a wood or brick home, historically which people chose had a lot to do with local materials.

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5. Braxton1980 ◴[14 Apr 25 00:35 UTC] No.43676995{4}[source]▶
>Their goals are similar.

This isn't then your previous comment that the results are similar.

Goals aren't nearly as important as results.

Also, to dive deeper, what goals and how many are similar, and how similar?

If you mean they are both supporting Israel, then yes, but the Democrats exert more control over their actions. For example Biden was limiting the bomb size that Israel could purchase and Trump removed that.

So if you want to help the Palestinians one side is the better than the other. It doesn't matter if the goals are similar or even the results. There's still a difference and as you can see voter apathy only helped Republicans

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6. Retric ◴[14 Apr 25 01:00 UTC] No.43677114{5}[source]▶
> If you mean they are both supporting Israel

I have been talking about the propaganda from each sides of the current conflict in Palestine. I thought this make that clear “in this conflict so it’s really interesting to see how each side is using propaganda” but I may have misunderstood what you meant by supporting Israel.

> This isn't then your previous comment that the results are similar.

To be clear I’m noticing similar goals combined with something (diminishing returns?) yield similar results. Hell, it could also be a form follows function kind of thing, I’m noticing the results not doing a research paper.

> what goals

When I say they have similar goals I mean they are both trying to sway public option to support their agenda.

There’s a bunch of different kinds of kind of propaganda. If one side was doing a call to action for their supporters like “Buy war bonds!” then I presume the results wouldn’t seem so similar.

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7. Braxton1980 ◴[14 Apr 25 08:14 UTC] No.43679162{6}[source]▶
>When I say they have similar goals I mean they are both trying to sway public option to support their agenda.

Ok, but that's every politician (and many people as well). What their specific goal is matters. If one political party supports Israel 40% [4] and the other 80% then there's a difference. It's possible to support Israel and the Palestinians at the same time as well so it's not a clear "this or that"

>yield similar results.

If you are saying something like "Israel is still attacking Palestinians no matter who is elected" yes but to the same extent? What about aid to Palestine?

In 2018 Trump cut $200m worth of aid to them [1] then in 2021 Biden restored it [2]. I can understand if the issue is that neither party are going as far as you might want but that doesn't really make them same and not voting [3] doesn't make sense if you care because it can only make things worse for the Palestinians

Your argument reads like a general frustration with politics, which I get, but it still exists and will always exist. Not participating is the worse option imo.

[1] https://www.reuters.com/article/world/trump-cuts-more-than-2...

[2] https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20210407-us-restores...

[3] Not accusing you here

[4] Just a made a fake scale of support from 0 to 100 for the example

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8. Retric ◴[14 Apr 25 09:58 UTC] No.43679673{7}[source]▶
> In 2018 Trump cut $200m worth of aid to them [1] then in 2021 Biden restored it [2].

I am not referring to US politicians here. This has nothing to do with republicans and democrats. I am referring to what propaganda from Israel and Palestine directly + groups paid and unpaid supporting their agenda.

> Ok, but that's every politician

Politicians don’t just talk about the same thing one may highlight poverty and another jobs etc.

Here each side (Israel, Palestine) is taking about the same topic (location, war), trying to gain sympathy by talking about bad things that happen to specific people recently, etc

> Your argument reads like a general frustration with politics

If I was equally uninterested in politics and everyone was always talking about the deficit I might feel the same way. But this really does seem unusually similar.

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