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182 points arizen | 25 comments | | HN request time: 0.002s | source | bottom
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gibbitz ◴[] No.43631583[source]
AI generated recruits are a fiction. That's not to say there aren't fake or bait and switch recruits but this idea makes no sense.

Some background. I'm a senior developer who has performed hundreds of interviews and seen dozens of questionable recruits long before AI. Typically the scam is that an offshore consultancy wants to place some roles to collect wages. Many of these agencies are from collectivist cultures, so in the mind of the agency, they all work in our project. This may not be true, but the agency sees the position as theirs, not the recruit's. So they typically don't the issue with putting recruit A in front of the interviewer and then slotting recruit B in after the position is secured. I've seen this done with A talking while B moves their lips on camera. Now with chatGPT (and earlier to some degree with just Google Search) we just see applicants eyes focused on something they're reading when we ask questions. All of this is just as easy as an AI generated applicant (if not easier) and quite likely to get the recruit hired.

A lot of this narrative is pointing the finger at China, North Korea and Russia/Ukraine. The best candidates I've fielded have been Ukrainian, Russian and Chinese. These are countries well known for their tech sectors. North Korea has executed the largest crypto heists in history. These are not groups who need to fake it.

So who does this narrative serve? It serves the RTO CEOs. This makes CEOs scared to hire remote workers and lets the ones who demand it have a reason.

If anything the panic around AI should reinforce the need to think critically about these things.

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1. FirmwareBurner ◴[] No.43631862[source]
>The best candidates I've fielded have been Ukrainian, Russian and Chinese. These are countries well known for their tech sectors.

Out of curiosity, what tech sector does Ukraine have? I don't remember ever hearing of any large successful Ukrainian SW compony or unicorn.

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2. mistrial9 ◴[] No.43631906[source]
parts of remote Eastern Europe have produced excellent techs for decades.. they seem to deny it now but JetBrainz is from there, which is hugely successful.
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3. FirmwareBurner ◴[] No.43632059[source]
>parts of remote Eastern Europe have produced excellent techs for decades..

Like wich exactly? Jetbrains is one, but it is from Czechia IIRC. I was asking what tech products has Ukrainian tech sector produced.

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4. mistrial9 ◴[] No.43632134{3}[source]
Leonid Radvinsky, Ruja Ignatova ?
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5. pfdietz ◴[] No.43632169[source]
Grammarly?
6. FirmwareBurner ◴[] No.43632185{4}[source]
What part of "tech products of Ukraine" was unclear?
7. dkarl ◴[] No.43632201{3}[source]
I've worked with several excellent Ukrainian developers, but in each case they were working for consulting firms in other Eastern European countries.
8. oblio ◴[] No.43632251[source]
Guess what happens with any promising European startup (including Eastern European ones). It's acquired by American companies.

Europe doesn't have a ton of large and high paying software companies, but it does have a ton of good developers.

Romania probably has produced half a million software developers over the past 30 years (in a population of about 20 million), yet it basically doesn't have any large software companies. Probably the biggest you might have heard of are Bitdefender or in the past Softpedia.

Or the alternative, foreign companies set up shop there to scoop up the local developers. Using Romania as an example, Bucharest has R&D centers with at least hundreds of developers each (some with thousands), for: Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Oracle, Adobe, SAP, UIPath, Huawei, Honeywell, IBM, Cognizant, Ericsson, Ubisoft, HP, etc.

9. oblio ◴[] No.43632269{3}[source]
> have produced excellent tech <<talent>> for decades..

There you go, hope it makes more sense for you.

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10. camdenreslink ◴[] No.43632289[source]
I’ve started paying more attention and noticing a lot of the creators/maintainers of open source libraries are located in Eastern Europe.
11. FirmwareBurner ◴[] No.43632293{4}[source]
Understandable, thanks.
12. no_wizard ◴[] No.43632317[source]
> JetBrainz

Its Jetbrains, and they don't deny having workers there at all (the company itself If I recall correctly is located in the Czech Republic). In fact, they went through great expense to exfiltrate their Ukrainian employees and cut Russia off before everyone else got on the bandwagon (IE, before it was 'cool').

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13. eszed ◴[] No.43632320[source]
Spark / Readdle. Not a unicorn, but I've been a happy user for years.

(Their response to a customer-service request a year or so ago was sobering. Along the lines of "yes, that's a bug we know about, but the developer who owns that feature lost his home in a missile strike last week. Once he's got housing and a new laptop he'll fix it." A week later he fixed it.)

14. arwineap ◴[] No.43632427[source]
Have you heard of grammarly? Or gitlab?
15. spitfire ◴[] No.43632511{3}[source]
Jetbrains is Russian. They relocated to Czech to wash their face.
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16. mistrial9 ◴[] No.43632669{4}[source]
I honestly do not know about this -- wasn't it based in Kiev at first?
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17. codedokode ◴[] No.43633855{3}[source]
I always thought that Jetbrains is 100% Russian? Why would foreigners choose "Kotlin" for the name of programming language?
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18. ◴[] No.43633941{5}[source]
19. spitfire ◴[] No.43634204{5}[source]
According to Wikipedia “ JetBrains, initially called IntelliJ Software,[9][10] was founded in 2000 in Prague by three Russian software developers:”

My understanding is that they had the Czech business location with Russian developers so they had a clean public face.

I’d believe you if you insisted on Kiev based too, I don’t know anything first hand.

20. slezyr ◴[] No.43635666[source]
TeamDev, quite popular amongst large businesses with Chromium-based widgets for Java and .NET.

JxBrowser: https://teamdev.com/jxbrowser/ DotNetBrowser: https://teamdev.com/dotnetbrowser/

21. ◴[] No.43636655{4}[source]
22. kgeist ◴[] No.43636894{4}[source]
IIRC JetBrains was nominally registered in Czech Republic but the majority of the engineers were located in St.Petersburg (and Kotlin is an island near St.Petersburg).
23. throwaway48476 ◴[] No.43636950{3}[source]
Russia has been sanctioned since 2014 and that's when the tech exodus began.
24. throwaway48476 ◴[] No.43636959{4}[source]
An Israeli and a Bulgarian gypsy?
25. kgeist ◴[] No.43637148[source]
I've always had the impression that Ukraine's tech sector is primarily focused on outsourcing or outstaffing for Western companies, so they typically don't own what they build (and it's very custom, boring enterprise stuff anyway).

Russia, on the other hand, has traditionally focused more on building its own products and brands, both for its domestic market (Yandex, VK) and the global market (Karsperky, ABBYY, JetBrains). When a technology they create for themselves turns out to be pretty good, it often spills over to the West and gains global popularity - examples being ClickHouse (originally to support metrics collection at Yandex), nginx (originally a reverse proxy at Rambler), etc. I have a hard time remembering something similar coming out of Ukraine?..

I may be wrong, it's just my impression of it (reading Ukrainian/Russian job postings etc.)