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666 points jcartw | 9 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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SwiftyBug ◴[] No.43620583[source]
I've been living in Brazil for the last 20 years.

Pix revolutionised the way we transact in Brazil. I've used Pix to pay for things that cost only cents, and I have a friend who bought her house using Pix. The system just works for any transfer amount. And it's so easy to use.

Its speed is truly baffling, and so is its reliability. Never have I failed to make a Pix payment because of downtime. I never cease to be amazed by how fast money arrives in my Brazilian account when I make a withdrawal directly from my EUR wallet on Wise. I receive a push notification from my Brazilian bank before Wise finishes running the animation of confirmation of withdrawal. It's like magic.

And it's so widespread that nowadays I don't even question whether someone accepts Pix. When I get in a taxi, no matter how old the driver is, it's certain that they take (and prefer) Pix.

I've even had homeless people ask me for Pix instead of change on multiple occasions.

Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance.

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mhluongo ◴[] No.43620618[source]
> Cryptocurrencies don't stand a chance.

Does it work internationally? Does it send USD as well, or only the real?

If it solves th same problems, why is Brazil considering banning self-custodial USD stablecoins? And why has there been an ongoing discussion about launching mBRL, and stablecoin pegged to the real?

https://www.pymnts.com/cryptocurrency/2024/brazil-considers-...

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londons_explore ◴[] No.43620684[source]
Nearly every non-western country has it's own e-cash type system.

Everything from m-pesa in Kenya to Gcash in the Philippines to PromptPay in Thailand to Alipay in China to SGQR in Singapore to MPay in Oman....

The pattern is that these systems are nearly all fully centralised, require ID, zero privacy, usually government sanctioned, and not cross border.

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pjc50 ◴[] No.43620767[source]
And quite a lot of Western ones like Vipps. And see this long list: https://truelayer.com/reports/alternative-payments/european-...

> require ID, zero privacy, usually government sanctioned

Unfortunately systems that don't have those requirements are going to be money laundering channels. I wish it wasn't such a big concern but it's unavoidable.

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earnesti ◴[] No.43620868{3}[source]
>> require ID, zero privacy, usually government sanctioned

> Unfortunately systems that don't have those requirements are going to be money laundering channels. I wish it wasn't such a big concern but it's unavoidable.

There same requirements also make the likelihood of these systems scaling beyong one jurisdiction very unlikely. Tourists don't want to set up a payment account for every country they visit. Or other way around, banks don't want to KYC and set up an account for every foreign tourist.

As Visa and MC work globally, I'm betting that the dominance from those will continue. Cryptocurrencies might have some change of becoming the "global" transaction method as well.

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alephnerd ◴[] No.43620911{4}[source]
> As Visa and MC work globally, I'm betting that the dominance from those will continue.

China, India, Brazil, Russia, Japan, South Korea, and others are all trying to expand their own transaction networks.

While it's still piecemeal, a Chinese or Indian tourist in Thailand can use UnionPay or UPI to transact without using Visa/Mastercard, a Russian tourist in Vietnam can use Mir, a Brazilian in Argentina can use Pix instead of Visa/MC as well, and a Japanese visitor in Singapore can use JCB instead.

Even the ECB has recently started considering this option (though it might also be an attempt to force the Trump admin to negotiate).

The biggest thing blocking international payment competitors is FATF, which has some regulations biased in favor of Visa/Mastercard.

> Cryptocurrencies might have some change of becoming the "global" transaction method as well

I'm not sure. Most jurisdictions that aren't the US and EU heavily regulate cryptocurrencies, and at best allow state managed or regulated cryptocurrencies, which basically makes the whole point of crypto moot.

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notpushkin ◴[] No.43621162{5}[source]
> a Russian tourist in Vietnam can use Mir

If you can find a place that actually accepts it! It’s certainly not as ubiquitous as the local Napas247 QR codes.

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1. alephnerd ◴[] No.43621315{6}[source]
Yep! And Napas247 was co-developed by Vietnam and South Korea (edit: Only VN - confused Shinhan's support for development work)!

The point is there is a steady decoupling towards non-Visa/MC payment systems outside the US and EU, and it wouldn't be too surprising if a number of these systems begin supporting inter-operability within the next 10 years.

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2. notpushkin ◴[] No.43621512[source]
Oh yeah, I think lots of QR code based systems in Asia are actually interoperable now (just not if you’re not a resident in any of these countries — e.g. I do have GCash, but my account works in Philippines only).
3. nguyenkien ◴[] No.43622323[source]
Sorry, I can't find anywhere mention it co-develop with South Korea. Can you give source to this?
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4. alephnerd ◴[] No.43622444[source]
Good callout! I'm wrong on that one. I was under the assumption it was co-developed with Shinhan but that was wrong.
5. vitorgrs ◴[] No.43627084[source]
Yes. As soon as June, Brazilian pix will support "Automatic Pix". Which means, basically, Pix will support subscriptions. So let's say, you authorize Netflix with pix, and then every month they will charge you with Pix automatically.

I find very likely Netflix or Amazon will be one of the first companies to support this in June now.

This was made initially to replace old school automatic debit for phone/electricity/etc bills, but it will support all services.

In Brazil, installments with credit cards are also super common... Basically when you put a credit card on any website or buy on a store, you can just choose to pay in 12x.

Well, they will add in September Pix Installments as well.

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6. alephnerd ◴[] No.43627706[source]
Intruiging (in a great way). Do you have any recommendations of any Brazilian sources (Portuguese em Ingles) about the Brazilian and MERCOSUR FinTech and Public Tech industry? I'd love to dig even deeper, but my background is more NAM and Indo-Pac driven. I passed on NuBank eons ago and don't want to make the same mistake again.

> Brazil, installments with credit cards are also super common... Basically when you put a credit card on any website or buy on a store, you can just choose to pay in 12x

Yea that kinda makes sense. The market dynamics in Brazil reminds me a lot of India albeit better regulated (thank you OECD reforms), but tbf, there has been a lot of cross-pollination between Brazilian and Indian policymakers - Cambridge MA is that kinda melting pot, and Brazil has a very similar political dynamic.

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7. vitorgrs ◴[] No.43628315{3}[source]
Not sure if there's an english website about it, but in Portuguese quality content you can find without paywall I would say is NeoFeed https://neofeed.com.br/

Brazil Journal too, but it usually focus more on market as a whole. https://braziljournal.com/

But most of the news are usually covered on Infomoney, Valor Economico, with the together with daily market coverage.

NeoFeed and Brazil Journal focus more on "high-quality", less content.

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8. alephnerd ◴[] No.43628685{4}[source]
Thanks my dude! Obv gunna do some due dilligence, but the sources you provided look solid.

Let's grab some cacha or other trashy/bourgeois booze when I'm back in São Paulo! I'm am Arak kinda guy

9. owebmaster ◴[] No.43632369{3}[source]
> Do you have any recommendations of any Brazilian sources (Portuguese em Ingles) about the Brazilian and MERCOSUR FinTech and Public Tech industry?

the best source I could find is this: https://finsidersbrasil.com.br/