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185 points psxuaw | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.596s | source
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csdvrx ◴[] No.43536866[source]
The main complain of the author seems to be that linux use systemd.

In my experience, systemd is far better and more reliable than anything else, especially if you need complex logic (ex: when this and that happen, start doing this, except when such and such are present)

Most of the problems I've seen come from trying to duplicate systemd functions: in the author example, why bother with rsyslog or network-manager?

I have also seen many people refusing to learn modern tools, instead trying to make it work with the tools they know, by disabling what works better, often with poor results.

It's like trying to keep using ifconfig and route instead of ip: you can make it work, but for say managing multiple ip on the same interface forces you to go with eth0:0 eth0:1 etc (and let's not even talk about network namespaces).

I like the various BSD and distributions like postmarket OS, but I wish they had access to modern tools instead of having to "roll my own" with scripts or make do with what they depend on

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1. johnklos ◴[] No.43537979[source]
> I have also seen many people refusing to learn modern tools

One of the reasons I prefer NetBSD (and the BSDs in general) is that they don't change gratuitously. The ifconfig / ip example you use is good: Why? If we look at the reasoning given, it was that they didn't want to make big changes to ifconfig, so they made a whole new set of commands, even though the BSDs have extended ifconfig many times.

So that ends up meaning that how-tos just don't work any more. Imagine if you want to write a how-to these days where you're telling people how to do something using standard ifconfig and now also need to add ip. This is how you do DNS on standard Unix(like) systems, and now you have to explain multiple iterations of systemd. This is how you add software, but now you need to have separate instructions for apt, yum, dpkg.

Having administered Ubuntu for others, even going from version 18 to 20 or 22 means that how-tos no longer work, scripts need to be modified, systemd handling has to be updated, et cetera.

This is why I will always choose a BSD if given a chance. Pointing to a less messy Linux (like Void because it doesn't use systemd) isn't good enough when clean, well thought out systems already exist.

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2. csdvrx ◴[] No.43538251[source]
> One of the reasons I prefer NetBSD (and the BSDs in general) is that they don't change gratuitously.

I like BSDs for the integration and the performance.

> So that ends up meaning that how-tos just don't work any more

Complexity (or change) doesn't come out of nowhere: sometimes, new tools must be learned.

> isn't good enough when clean, well thought out systems already exist.

I also love well thought out systems, but I think systemd is one of these "well thought out" systems.

3. LargoLasskhyfv ◴[] No.43542120[source]
Regarding ifconfig, one could use Jonathan de Boyne Pollard's http://jdebp.info/Softwares/nosh/guide/ifconfig.html which comes with his http://jdebp.info/Softwares/nosh/