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300 points proberts | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source

I'll be here for the next 6 hours. As usual, there are countless possible topics and I'll be guided by whatever you're concerned with but as much as possible I'd like to focus on the recent changes and potential changes in U.S. immigration law, policy, and practice. Please remember that I am limited in providing legal advice on specific cases for obvious liability reasons because I won't have access to all the facts. Please stick to a factual discussion in your questions and comments and I'll try to do the same in my responses. Thank you!
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fuzztail ◴[] No.43363226[source]
I've seen recent examples of the government targeting green card holders for their speech. As a naturalized citizen who wants to exercise my free speech rights, how concerned should I be about potentially having my citizenship challenged on technical grounds? Are there realistic scenarios where this could happen despite First Amendment protections?
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mc32[dead post] ◴[] No.43363333[source]
[flagged]
darksaints ◴[] No.43363411[source]
Green card holders have a right to free speech.
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sigzero ◴[] No.43365360[source]
Green cards come with rules to keep. If you break those rules you can and probably will lose your green card and be deported.
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hn_throwaway_99 ◴[] No.43366040[source]
"Green cards come with rules to keep."

The whole issue is that the current administration has determined that they are the sole arbiter of those "rules", and they can detain and attempt to deport green card holders without any due process.

replies(1): >>43366141 #
kevin_thibedeau ◴[] No.43366141[source]
Promoting a declared terrorist organization isn't a gray area. Nor is abusing schedule 1 drugs but the felon seems to want his African buddy to slide on that one.
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darksaints ◴[] No.43366279{3}[source]
Promoting a terrorist organization is legal and well within the boundaries of free speech. It's just not cool, not a good look, and should be shamed into submission.

Providing material support to a terrorist organization is where it crosses into criminal territory.

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blindriver ◴[] No.43368825{4}[source]
You need to educate yourself. This is 100% incorrect. It might be legal for a citizen but not a permanent resident. Endorsing terrorism is a question asked on every Green Card and naturalization application, and will get your deported. Until you are a citizen you will lose your green card for endorsing terrorism.
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darksaints ◴[] No.43373256{5}[source]
Conditions for admissibility are one thing, and you can be denied entry for any thought crime that the government wants to impose.

Once you are in, you have the same rights to free speech as any citizen, and the same rights to due process as well. In fact, the only thing they can do to curb your free speech is prove in court that you lied on your application. Which is likely how this case will play out after judges rule on how illegal their attempted action is, but as of yet the government has not provided any evidence of him lying on his application.

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blindriver ◴[] No.43373748{6}[source]
No you do not have the same rights as any citizen. You are wrong. You cannot endorse terrorism. If you come into the US on a visa and say "Death to America!" then you will be deported. This has been the case for decades upon decades and in my opinion it is correct. It's called biting the hand that feeds you and that person is taking a spot from someone else who would be grateful for being in the US.
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darksaints ◴[] No.43376046{7}[source]
Your opinion doesn’t matter dude. Decades of jurisprudence and Supreme Court precedent has already conclusively determined that green card holders have the same rights to free speech as citizens. It would take overturning the existing Supreme Court precedent, and destroying the 1st amendment along with it, for that to go away.
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blindriver ◴[] No.43378065{8}[source]
You are completely wrong. Supreme Court found that aliens do not have full first amendment protection, especially around terrorism.
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mindslight ◴[] No.43380074{9}[source]
s/Supreme Court found/Subservient Council declared/g

Our Constitution and Bill of Rights is framed in terms of recognizing independent-existing natural inalienable rights. Citizenship is a complete red herring. The SC has been writing justifications for blatant infringement of natural rights for decades, even before the current neofascist takeover. Take the Bill of Rights as a list of test cases, run down them, and try to find one that is actually passing.

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blindriver ◴[] No.43381861{10}[source]
Wrong.

Reno v. American-Arab Antidiscrimination Committee made it clear that there are no First amendment protections from deportation. This is well established case law for decades now.

https://www.aclu.org/documents/reno-v-adc

This is why talking confidently about things you have absolutely no idea about makes you look foolish.

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mindslight ◴[] No.43382686{11}[source]
Nothing in your comment is a logical response to anything in mine. Perhaps you need to take your own advice, especially with text that's right above where you're typing?
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1. blindriver ◴[] No.43385102{12}[source]
Probably because you don't understand what I posted. It clearly states that non-citizens do not enjoy First Amendment protections when it comes to deportation, which is exactly what Khalil is going through right now. If you don't understand how this relates, then you need some deep education on what you were posting about.
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2. mindslight ◴[] No.43385394[source]
I understand your comments just fine. Rather it seems that you have a comprehension problem. Your link may state that the Supreme Court has declared that non-citizens [etc]. Pointing out that you're holding up this declaration as if it's some unassailable logical conclusion rather than an arguable policy decree is the crux of my comment.
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3. blindriver ◴[] No.43389069[source]
Ah, so you don’t understand how the judicial branch works. Okay. Regardless of what you want to believe, non-citizens do not enjoy first amendment rights when it comes to deportation. Period. End of story. You can be against this all you want, but Khalil will be lawfully deported and so will any other non-citizens that engage in endorsing terrorism. This is established case law.
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4. mindslight ◴[] No.43390672{3}[source]
I don't know why you keep jumping to characterize disagreement as misunderstanding. Your apparent belief that the courts somehow represent infallible logic rather than merely a different type of policymaking is exactly why I'm making my point. Like, it's a big deal when a new justice gets appointed, right? They're not just interchangeable cogs.

Pragmatically, yes, Khalil will likely be deported due to having exercised his freedom of speech. This, along with many other current affairs, should be abhorrent to anybody who actually believes in the ideals of individual liberty - regardless of the justifications crafted by the judicial, executive, and fourth estate. And I really don't know what you gain by cheerleading authoritarianism, besides some feeling of smugness of being on the winning team.