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Nintendo announces the Switch 2 [video]

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781 points HelloUsername | 51 comments | 16 Jan 25 13:08 UTC | HN request time: 1.393s | source | bottom
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nerdjon ◴[16 Jan 25 14:11 UTC] No.42725322[source]▶
Happy to see that Nintendo is treating the switch more like how they traditionally handled their mobile platforms instead of their consoles.

Iterating instead of throwing out everything with each new version. There is a part of me that is going to miss the, do weird shit and see what works, Nintendo that brought us some really fun ideas. But a stable Nintendo just being able to continue putting out great games has its advantages.

I am curious about the specs, but honestly don't care much. The only real issue the Switch had was being able to keep up with some of the games put on it with FPS but it still had beautiful games (like Tears of the Kingdom). So as long as it is actually a decent spec bump I am happy and have zero care to compare it to the other consoles (but I am sure people are going too and scream that it is "underpowered").

The biggest thing I am curious about, will it be OLED since that will be disappointing to go back to non OLED from the OLED Switch. And Price.

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1. chungy ◴[16 Jan 25 14:31 UTC] No.42725623[source]▶
Nintendo has tended to maintain at most 1 generation of backwards compatibility, though you can get some fuzzy ideas of "generations" in a few cases.

  Game Boy Color: plays original Game Boy games
  Game Boy Advance: plays Game Boy and Game Boy Color games
  Nintendo DS: plays Game Boy Advance games
  Nintendo DSi: plays Nintendo DS games
  Nintendo 3DS: plays Nintendo DS and DSi games
  Nintendo New 3DS: plays Nintendo DS, DSi, and (old) 3DS games
  Nintendo Wii: plays GameCube games
  Nintendo Wii U: plays Wii games
The Switch is a notable break in both of these lines, playing neither 3DS nor Wii U games.
replies(8): >>42725685 #>>42726494 #>>42726555 #>>42727826 #>>42727920 #>>42728119 #>>42728772 #>>42728998 #
2. TuxSH ◴[16 Jan 25 14:34 UTC] No.42725685[source]▶
3DS has hardware support for GBA games too, actually, though these only got distributed via the Ambassador program.

Also had VC for most of Nintendo's platform.

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3. chungy ◴[16 Jan 25 14:38 UTC] No.42725745[source]▶
I know, and you can basically restore full GameCube compatibility on the Wii U via Nintendont. Neither of them let you use the actual physical games from the old system, and needing to perform jailbreak hacks to use them and load ROMs on anyway doesn't count as much as out-of-the-box compatibility.
replies(1): >>42726172 #
4. TuxSH ◴[16 Jan 25 15:03 UTC] No.42726172{3}[source]▶
Fair. A shame, still, especially for GC compat on WiiU.
replies(1): >>42726287 #
5. Wowfunhappy ◴[16 Jan 25 15:10 UTC] No.42726287{4}[source]▶
The problem in both cases is that the consoles were actually missing a key piece of hardware: the ability to read the disc or cartridge.

If you're a hacker-type person who has already digitized your gamecube collection (or, let's be honest, downloaded the games illegally) then this doesn't matter. But for regular consumers, there needs to be a way to verify ownership.

Nintendo could have made some titles available digitally (which is what I wish they'd done), but that requires getting content rights sorted out for games that have never been sold digitally before, so the full catalog would not have been available. Also, there would have been a ton of hemming and hawing about "Nintendo is making me buy my Gamecube games again?!?" No comment on whether such complaints would have been reasonable.

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6. bdhcuidbebe ◴[16 Jan 25 15:17 UTC] No.42726392{5}[source]▶
Downloading roms is all it takes to be regarded a hacker-type these days? I feel words keep losing their meaning …
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7. 10729287 ◴[16 Jan 25 15:24 UTC] No.42726494[source]▶
>Nintendo New 3DS: plays Nintendo DS, DSi, and (old) 3DS games

I know HN doesn't have any room for sarcasm but I couldn't not laugh trying to remember what were the NEW 3ds games. Sure the second pad made the 3DS way more comfortable to play, and 3D was a bit better, but we all got scammed here regarding games supporting this new hardware.

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8. ◴[16 Jan 25 15:27 UTC] No.42726532{6}[source]▶
9. bluefirebrand ◴[16 Jan 25 15:28 UTC] No.42726554{6}[source]▶
Downloading roms? Probably not

Modding your Wii-U to run those roms?

I feel that probably qualifies someone to be regarded as a hacker -type

replies(1): >>42727877 #
10. nerdjon ◴[16 Jan 25 15:28 UTC] No.42726555[source]▶
Based on that list, they have tended really only to do that on mobile platforms. It was one of my favorite things about the platform, but it always felt like this was partially thanks to the older hardware still getting games well into the new hardware's life in many cases. Major games, I believe Pokemon has done this a few times?

Most of their home consoles were complete departures from previous hardware.

NES, SNES, N64, Gamecube all did not work with prior games were fairly different (ok admittedly the outward difference between the NES and the SNES were minimal but still no compatability).

So honestly I think it was more notable that the Wii could play Gamecube games than the other way around as far as Nintendo's track record goes.

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11. la6776 ◴[16 Jan 25 16:02 UTC] No.42727076[source]▶
for what it's worth Nintendo had planned to make the SNES backward compatible and that intention influenced design choices, particularly the very similar CPU.
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12. jedberg ◴[16 Jan 25 17:01 UTC] No.42727826[source]▶
The Switch is interesting, because while you can't play the old games you already own, the Switch can play those games with an emulator, if you're willing to pay them more money to get a digital copy.
13. bdhcuidbebe ◴[16 Jan 25 17:04 UTC] No.42727877{7}[source]▶
I guess I shoild have quoted what I was referring to, since it seems to high ask to expect others to read the rest of the discourse.

> If you're a hacker-type person who has already digitized your gamecube collection (or, let's be honest, downloaded the games illegally)

Either way, I disagree with your definition too.

The ”hacker-type” is the one figuring out how to mod the wii-u. The one following some instructions to perform it using provided tools is simply a end user.

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14. danudey ◴[16 Jan 25 17:07 UTC] No.42727920[source]▶
> playing neither 3DS nor Wii U games.

Except the ones they remaster for us for $70.

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15. ◴[16 Jan 25 17:08 UTC] No.42727930[source]▶
16. jamesgeck0 ◴[16 Jan 25 17:11 UTC] No.42727992[source]▶
IIRC Xenoblade Chronicles and Fire Emblem Warriors were the only ones I really cared about. Lots of people held onto their old hardware; probably wasn't worth excluding them.

The biggest advantage of owning a New 3DS turned out to be the huge performance uplift. A fair number of games ran at double the framerate or only supported 3D mode on the newer hardware. Code Name STEAM had substantially less downtime on the New models because the AI could process turns faster. Several reviews for Hyrule Warriors Legends flat out said not to buy the game unless you had a "New" model due to performance issues.

17. johnwalkr ◴[16 Jan 25 17:21 UTC] No.42728119[source]▶
I almost forgot the switch doesn't play Wii U games, given that almost all Wii U games worth playing were also released for the Switch.
18. larusso ◴[16 Jan 25 18:06 UTC] No.42728661[source]▶
First Wii was able to play Game Cube Games. WiiU was backwards compatible to Wii. All theses consoles used nearly the same chipset anyways.
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19. 8note ◴[16 Jan 25 18:13 UTC] No.42728772[source]▶
im pretty sure all the later versions of gameboys could play the old games, so long as the cartridges have the same package and connector.

the GBC games just didnt fit well in the DS

replies(1): >>42729466 #
20. daveoc64 ◴[16 Jan 25 18:19 UTC] No.42728850[source]▶
The New 3DS consoles did have double the RAM and an improved CPU and GPU, so there were quite a few games like Minecraft and the SNES Virtual Console that could only run on the New models.
21. lotsoweiners ◴[16 Jan 25 18:30 UTC] No.42728998[source]▶
You probably know this but most of those aren’t really generations. Game boy color, DSi, new 3ds are just upgrades of the same generation kinda like PS5 vs PS5 Pro.
replies(2): >>42729088 #>>42729447 #
22. lotsoweiners ◴[16 Jan 25 18:32 UTC] No.42729023{3}[source]▶
I was always amazed the Wii with its full size discs could play the GameCube mini discs.
replies(1): >>42730598 #
23. klausa ◴[16 Jan 25 18:37 UTC] No.42729088[source]▶
All of those have games exclusive to them.

3DS has like ~15, though some heavy hitters (Xenoblade and Fire Emblem), DSi has like 6 no-names (and, technically, a whole lot on DSiWare); but there are many GBC-exclusive games.

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24. chungy ◴[16 Jan 25 18:49 UTC] No.42729243{3}[source]▶
Yeah, the SNES uses a 65816, which is pretty much a backwards-compatible and 16-bit extension of the 6502, used in the NES. The SPC is likewise capable of nearly perfectly reproducing the NES's audio capabilities, and the PPU has the same background and sprite layering as the NES as a foundation.
25. chungy ◴[16 Jan 25 18:52 UTC] No.42729298{5}[source]▶
The problem is deliberate hardware choices. They may be reasonable choices, but if Nintendo wanted to prioritize forever backwards compatibility, we could still have a GameCube-compatible disc drive and GBA and DS compatible catridge slots.
replies(1): >>42729868 #
26. chungy ◴[16 Jan 25 18:55 UTC] No.42729339[source]▶
There are a handful of more New 3DS exclusives than there were DSi exclusives. Both revisions failed to garner enough market for developers to try to target them.
27. chungy ◴[16 Jan 25 19:04 UTC] No.42729447[source]▶
"Generations" is a fairly subjective term all things considered, and I basically acknowledged it by saying these things are fuzzy.

As the sibling post mentions, they all have exclusives, however, which is something Sony has refused to allow for PS4 Pro and PS5 Pro updates. And even though Nintendo considers the GBC to be the same console as the original GB when it comes to tallying sales figures, it's a rather significant upgrade. Slightly better than NES full color games, double the processor speed. It made a compelling upgrade and target for developers.

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28. chungy ◴[16 Jan 25 19:05 UTC] No.42729466[source]▶
The DS can't play GBC games at all, it doesn't have the Z80 CPU from that console to even provide backwards compatibility. Nintendo also removed it from the Game Boy Micro, making it a GBA-only console.
29. Wowfunhappy ◴[16 Jan 25 19:38 UTC] No.42729868{6}[source]▶
This is fair, although I do think the choice was reasonable. Disc drives are an expensive part, and consider how much space a cartridge slot would have used on the 3DS...

----

I have long had a total fantasy in this vein... what Nintendo could have done is release add-on hardware to read old media. Imagine a hybrid mini-disc and cartridge reader which connects to the Wii U via USB, and a Gameboy cartridge reader which connects to the 3DS via... uh, possibly NFC, Gameboy games are small and the games could be read once and cached to internal storage.

You could use this to add backwards compatibility all the way back to the NES and Gameboy! Games from consoles two generations back could have been run natively, everything older could have been trivially software emulated.

I don't think such a product would have substantially interfered with Virtual Console sales, it would have been too niche. Probably too niche to make sense in real life... but in my fantasy, the goal would have been PR. It would cement the idea that buying a Nintendo game is an investment which Nintendo will support long-term; whether a large number of people make use of that ability is irrelevant.

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30. chungy ◴[16 Jan 25 19:59 UTC] No.42730120{7}[source]▶
That's basically the niche that companies like Analogue are exploiting. I'm sure it'll forever be a niche market, but it's nice that someone caters to it. :)
replies(1): >>42732322 #
31. bluefirebrand ◴[16 Jan 25 20:08 UTC] No.42730239{8}[source]▶
I think they are both hacker like behavior, just varying skill levels

Using a tool someone else built is definitely the gateway to hacker mindset and culture

32. jzwinck ◴[16 Jan 25 20:40 UTC] No.42730598{4}[source]▶
Ability to play smaller discs was normal in most CD-ROM and DVD players for many years before the Wii. A few people (probably half of whom have HN accounts) used to give out mini-CD business cards...sometimes even with truncated edges so the disc was not entirely round: https://www.duplication.com/cd-business-card-duplication.htm
replies(1): >>42730985 #
33. cgriswald ◴[16 Jan 25 20:43 UTC] No.42730639{8}[source]▶
Gatekeeping the term hacker is... paradoxical.
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34. hnlmorg ◴[16 Jan 25 21:13 UTC] No.42730985{5}[source]▶
Yeah but most of the optical drives that support this have trays or are top loading. It’s a little more counterintuitive to have a postbox-style drive (I don’t know what they’re actually called) that supports different sized discs.
replies(1): >>42732221 #
35. freddi333 ◴[16 Jan 25 21:19 UTC] No.42731044[source]▶
Super Smash Brothers worked very well with the second pad.
36. TylerE ◴[16 Jan 25 22:19 UTC] No.42731644{7}[source]▶
You could probably do effectively that by just shipping a usb drive. After game from the NES-N64 are just a few GB.
replies(1): >>42732283 #
37. Lio ◴[16 Jan 25 22:22 UTC] No.42731673{3}[source]▶
I heard that it was a forced response to Sega aggressively cutting the price of the Megadrive/Genesis to the point that it made it very difficult for Nintendo to sensibly price the SNES bill of materials.

Something had to go and it was backwards compatibility.

38. monocasa ◴[16 Jan 25 23:01 UTC] No.42732019{3}[source]▶
WiiU also had the back compat hardware of the Wii, just couldn't take a gamecube disc in it's drive.

Similarly, a lot of the SNES internally looks like it was at least initially designed for back compat with the NES.

replies(1): >>42732847 #
39. jacobgkau ◴[16 Jan 25 23:22 UTC] No.42732221{6}[source]▶
> postbox-style drive (I don’t know what they’re actually called)

Slot-loading.

40. Wowfunhappy ◴[16 Jan 25 23:30 UTC] No.42732283{8}[source]▶
If it was an official product, it would have to read from the real cartridge or disc. If nothing else, Nintendo does not have the legal right to redistribute games made by third parties.
41. Wowfunhappy ◴[16 Jan 25 23:34 UTC] No.42732322{8}[source]▶
I think being an official product makes it totally different and much more special. Maybe that's silly--but consider how well the NES Mini sold compared to similar unofficial products. (Unfortunately, the NES Mini couldn't read cartridges.)
42. Izkata ◴[16 Jan 25 23:49 UTC] No.42732443{3}[source]▶
Back when they were first coming out, a lot of us also considered GameBoy Pocket to be a new "generation". I think it might have supported a few more shades of grey from the original? And better battery life. And lots of case colors.
replies(1): >>42732988 #
43. Macha ◴[17 Jan 25 00:10 UTC] No.42732590{3}[source]▶
Although funnily enough, in most regions Pokemon Gold and Silver were not actually GBC exclusive and would run on the original Game Boy, despite arguably being the game the GBC was most promoted for and having colour (which didn't work on the DMG, obviously) as their major features.

The Korean release of Gold and Silver, along with Crystal, did actually require a GBC.

44. jpalawaga ◴[17 Jan 25 00:52 UTC] No.42732847{4}[source]▶
GC emulation wasn't emulation; it was done with a separate chip. It was more like native support. Eventually Nintendo removed that chip and backward-compatibility support from the console.

(so, even if you could put a GC disk in, it didn't have capability to natively play the game)

replies(1): >>42733218 #
45. chungy ◴[17 Jan 25 01:15 UTC] No.42732988{4}[source]▶
Capabilities wise, it was identical to the original Game Boy. Just four shades of gray for games to draw in. Externally: smaller unit, better battery life, higher contrast screen, new link port (yay adapters for connecting to the original Game Boy...), and "Play It Loud" (the colored cases to choose from). A true revision, no room to question about leaps in gaming technology. :)
46. BearOso ◴[17 Jan 25 01:26 UTC] No.42733055[source]▶
I was about to say that. Pretty much every unique Wii U game has been remastered for Switch.
47. Nullabillity ◴[17 Jan 25 01:52 UTC] No.42733218{5}[source]▶
It sounds like you're confusing the Wii's backwards compatibility with the PS3's. The Wii didn't have a separate "GameCube chip", its core was effectively an overclocked GC.
replies(1): >>42735019 #
48. bitwize ◴[17 Jan 25 06:20 UTC] No.42734621{3}[source]▶
Sega actually did what Nintendidn't. The Sega Genesis had a Z80 coprocessor, a video chip that was yet another extension of the TMS9918A design, and a PSG sound chip -- all just more advanced, or supplemented by other hardware, versions of components the Master System had. With an adapter add-on called the Power Base Converter, Master System games could be played on the Genesis.
49. larusso ◴[17 Jan 25 07:40 UTC] No.42735019{6}[source]▶
https://youtu.be/meZA9KHkFuY?si=5xrsSjNxKLxLnd6J

He explains it quite well. Sorry it’s German but I guess the information about the chips and reasons Nintendo choose them should be all over the net.

50. ◴[17 Jan 25 11:44 UTC] No.42736545{9}[source]▶
51. ◴[17 Jan 25 12:09 UTC] No.42736697{9}[source]▶