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354 points misonic | 7 comments | | HN request time: 0.601s | source | bottom
1. samsartor ◴[] No.42468798[source]
GNNs have been a bit of a disappointment to me. I've tried to apply them a couple times to my research but it has never worked out.

For a long time GNNs were pitched as a generalization of CNNs. But CNNs are more powerful because the "adjacency weights" (so to speak) are more meaningful: they learn relative positional relationships. GNNs usually resort to pooling, like described here. And you can output an image with a CNN. Good luck getting a GNN to output a graph. Topology still has to be decided up front, sometimes even during training. And the nail in the coffin is performance. It is incredible how slow GNNs are compared to CNNs.

These days I feel like attention has kinda eclipsed GNNs for a lot of those reasons. You can make GNNs that use attention instead of pooling, but there isn't much point. The graph is usually only traversed in order to create the mask matrix (ie attend between nth neighbors) and otherwise you are using a regular old transformer. Often you don't even need the graph adjacencies because some kind of distance metric is already available.

I'm sure GNNs are extremely useful to someone somewhere but my experience has been a hammer looking for a nail.

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2. stephantul ◴[] No.42468874[source]
Same! I’ve seen many proposals to use a GNN for some problem for which we used a “flat” model, e.g., taking into account HTML structure when predicting labels for pages. Even when it seemingly made a lot of sense to use them, it didn’t work.
3. lmeyerov ◴[] No.42468882[source]
Are you doing some regular like vision?

For the reasons you're saying, I don't think it's an accident that GNNs are popular mostly in domains like recommendations that feel graph-y for their domain model so getting to a useful topology isn't as big a leap.

A frustration for me has been more that many of these graph-y domains are about behavioral machine/people data like logs that contain a large amount of categorical dimensions. The graph part can help, but it is just as import to key on the categorical dimensions, and doing well there often end up outside of the model - random forest etc. It's easier to start with those, and then is a lot of work for the GNN part (though we & others have been trying to simplify) for "a bit more lift".

Of course, if this is your core business and this means many millions of dollars, it can be justified... but still, it's hard for most production teams. In practice, we often just do something with pygraphistry users like xgboost + umap and move on. Even getting an RGCN to perform well takes work..

4. igorkraw ◴[] No.42469313[source]
GNNs are useful at least in one case, when your data a set of atoms that define your datum through their interactions, specifically a set that is that is high cardinality (so you can't YOLO it with attention) with some notion of neighbourhood (i.e. geometry) within your set (defined by the interactions) which if maintained makes the data permutation equivariant, BUT you can't find a meaningful way to represent that geometry implicitly (for example because it changes between samples) => you YOLO it by just passing the neighourhood/interaction structure in as an input.

In almost every other case, you can exploit additional structure to be more efficient (can you define an order? sequence model. is it euclidean/riemanian? CNN or manifold aware models. no need to have global state? pointcloud networks. you have an explicit hierarchy? Unet version of your underlying modality. etc)

The reason why I find GNNs cool is that 1) they encode the very notion of _relations_ and 2) they have a very nice relationship to completely general discretized differential equations, which as a complex systems/dynamical systems guy is cool (but if you can specialize, there's again easier ways)

5. energy123 ◴[] No.42469395[source]
Google's GraphCast is a GNN: https://deepmind.google/discover/blog/graphcast-ai-model-for...
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6. eperfa ◴[] No.42471677[source]
Google DeepMind's GenCast is based on diffusion: https://deepmind.google/discover/blog/gencast-predicts-weath...

(Partially) Google Research's/DeepMind's NeuralGCM is based on hybrid models using ODEs and learnt physics: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07744-y

Microsoft Research's Aurora on vision transformers: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/blog/introducing-au...

Huawei's Pangu Weather is also a 3D transformer I believe https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07744-y

I just wanted to highlight that there are multiple approaches in use for the same problem / in the same domain, and GNN does not seem to be the most widely used one.

7. biomcgary ◴[] No.42472618[source]
I've followed GNNs in biology and applied them in a couple domains, but have been disappointed by the results so far. I'm a bit surprised because I have successfully used other graph-based approaches in biology.