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A 10-Year Battery for AirTag

(www.elevationlab.com)
673 points dmd | 25 comments | 18 Dec 24 18:17 UTC | HN request time: 1.206s | source | bottom
1. TuringNYC ◴[19 Dec 24 21:42 UTC] No.42465986[source]▶
Nice solution, but the bigger problem is how AirTags can basically be turned off, which makes it poor for many use cases.

Of course, I get it from Apple's perspective, they dont want AirTags to be used to tail others. However, that precludes it from being used for theft tracking.

For example, I use an AirTag on my bicycle. If someone steals the bicycle, they are literally informed "an air tag is following you" https://support.apple.com/en-us/119874

There are a lot of things I'd love to put long-term AirTags on (luggage, snow-blower, childrens' backpacks) but if theft isnt really deterred, then the case for a bulkier AirTag is quite reduced.

replies(6): >>42466060 #>>42466306 #>>42468052 #>>42468073 #>>42471326 #>>42479082 #
2. unsupp0rted ◴[19 Dec 24 21:50 UTC] No.42466060[source]▶
Theft-tracking is sort of an "off-label" use for AirTags, from Apple's perspective.

They'd rather make AirTags less generally useful than make them both more generally useful + open to stalking occurrences and lawsuits.

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3. TuringNYC ◴[19 Dec 24 22:10 UTC] No.42466231[source]▶
Agreed on the trade-off. And there are some absolutely 1000% winning use cases (lost cats, lost dogs, lost luggage). However, lets look at the constraints and outcomes:

- Me or other people need to be around (since airtags jump off others' devices)

This removes use cases like tracking lost marine goods, tracking lost drones, etc.

- Item being tracked has to be big enough to be worth the extra size/weight of the long life battery wrapper

This removes most common use cases like wallets, remotes, etc.

- Item being tracked has to be something you actually lose w/o wrongdoing. Makes sense for backpacks, purses, parked cars.

But, most capital equipment wouldnt be "lost" it would be stolen, so that is out.

https://ios.gadgethacks.com/how-to/20-surprisingly-practical...

replies(1): >>42468732 #
4. dervjd ◴[19 Dec 24 22:18 UTC] No.42466306[source]▶
Any tracker can be turned off if a thief manages to find it - but yeah a notification letting them know they need to look isn’t great.

I use an AirTag on my e-bike - there’s quite a few hidden mounts out there that look like normal rear reflectors or slot in between a water bottle cage and the bike frame. It’s also trivially easy to pop the AirTag open and remove the speaker so it can’t beep.

I bought my AirTags before there were any compatible third party options, but the non-Apple AirTags don’t have the UWB chip inside and don’t support the precision finding feature which would also make them more difficult to find.

replies(1): >>42469127 #
5. csomar ◴[20 Dec 24 03:36 UTC] No.42468052[source]▶
> Nice solution, but the bigger problem is how AirTags can basically be turned off, which makes it poor for many use cases.

Isn't that too late? If you disabled that AirTag with your phone, you are probably the thief. Now we got you fully I.D.ed.

It seems that the safest bet, for a thief/criminal, is to not take any iPhone (or phone) on him while committing the crime.

replies(1): >>42470666 #
6. l8rlump ◴[20 Dec 24 03:39 UTC] No.42468073[source]▶
https://github.com/seemoo-lab/openhaystack/?tab=readme-ov-fi...

These won’t inform, I believe.

7. theultdev ◴[20 Dec 24 06:16 UTC] No.42468732{3}[source]▶
> This removes most common use cases like wallets, remotes, etc.

I use an airtag for my wallet and apple remote.

https://ridge.com/products/carbon-case-for-airtag

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09G4PT3NJ

replies(2): >>42470491 #>>42470649 #
8. nielsbot ◴[20 Dec 24 07:54 UTC] No.42469127[source]▶
It’s not just the beeping. The potential thief’s iPhone will also notify them they’re being tracked.
replies(1): >>42480653 #
9. Diti ◴[20 Dec 24 12:20 UTC] No.42470491{4}[source]▶
For 10 USD more than the carbon case, I prefer using the following item for my wallet. https://nomadgoods.com/products/tracking-card
replies(1): >>42471904 #
10. yonatan8070 ◴[20 Dec 24 12:31 UTC] No.42470553[source]▶
I don't understand why AirTags being used for stalking would open Apple to lawsuits. If I buy a hammer and use it to attack someone, the manufacturer of the hammer isn't open to a lawsuit.

Of course I'm not saying Apple shouldn't try to protect people from stalkers using their control over their products, I just don't see why it would make Appld responsible if someone misused their products.

replies(2): >>42470712 #>>42474612 #
11. TuringNYC ◴[20 Dec 24 12:47 UTC] No.42470649{4}[source]▶
Were talking about the extended battery case, are you saying you put this giant thing in your wallet and on your remotes?! https://www.elevationlab.com/blogs/news/introducing-timecaps...
replies(1): >>42471846 #
12. TuringNYC ◴[20 Dec 24 12:49 UTC] No.42470666[source]▶
Thanks for this - I never thought that the act of disabling would create a record, but that makes sense! I wonder if that is something law enforcement can track and act on.
replies(1): >>42472962 #
13. TuringNYC ◴[20 Dec 24 12:56 UTC] No.42470712{3}[source]▶
IANAL but the hammer doesnt include an ongoing service, but the AirTag is facilitated with a constant service from the manufacturer.
replies(1): >>42471538 #
14. eek2121 ◴[20 Dec 24 14:28 UTC] No.42471326[source]▶
They aren’t meant for finding stolen stuff, rather, lost stuff.

Also, thieves are dumb.

15. unsupp0rted ◴[20 Dec 24 14:52 UTC] No.42471538{4}[source]▶
Also AirTags are meant for tracking personal possessions. Hammers aren't meant for murder. Murder is an off-label use of hammers.

If AirTags stopped notifying users they're being tracked, then AirTags would also be meant for tracking people.

replies(1): >>42479730 #
16. theultdev ◴[20 Dec 24 15:21 UTC] No.42471846{5}[source]▶
Yes, I clearly linked containers that aren't the device in question. I don't see the need for the extended battery case in those use-cases.

I also don't see my cat wearing that thing either. Maybe a large dog.

But things like wallets, remotes, cats, dogs, are usually in your possession frequently and only lost for short periods of time before you notice.

Luggage would be a good use case, and possibly bikes and other large equipment. But I would opt for something more discreet vs a larger battery.

17. theultdev ◴[20 Dec 24 15:27 UTC] No.42471904{5}[source]▶
My wallet is rfid blocking, that wouldn't work.

Plus one less card space in it, even if it did work.

18. giarc ◴[20 Dec 24 15:37 UTC] No.42472003[source]▶
I bet it's less about lawsuits and more about reputational harm if every week there is a news story about a murder facilitated by an AirTag.
19. electroly ◴[20 Dec 24 17:25 UTC] No.42472962{3}[source]▶
There is no feature that allows the thief to disable the AirTag at all. In the notification for "an AirTag is following you" the link for disabling the AirTag is simply instructions for removing the battery. It's up to the thief to find the AirTag using the audio ping (which, as mentioned elsewhere, you can deactivate by disconnecting the speaker) and their human eyeballs.

Go back to the page you linked -- https://support.apple.com/en-us/119874 -- the bottom of this page has a screenshot of those instructions.

20. 0xffff2 ◴[20 Dec 24 20:18 UTC] No.42474612{3}[source]▶
Conversely, people have been suing gun manufacturers after shootings basically forever.
replies(1): >>42474746 #
21. jjeaff ◴[20 Dec 24 20:31 UTC] No.42474746{4}[source]▶
Ya, but those cases have tended to get a bit more traction because the primary purpose of firearms is to kill and there are lots of things that gun makers could do to make it more difficult to kill people with them (like built in locking mechanisms). A little different than say, a hammer, which is not meant as a weapon of death.
replies(1): >>42480598 #
22. ValentineC ◴[21 Dec 24 11:36 UTC] No.42479082[source]▶
> Nice solution, but the bigger problem is how AirTags can basically be turned off, which makes it poor for many use cases.

> Of course, I get it from Apple's perspective, they dont want AirTags to be used to tail others.

I'm also not a fan of having to go back to Apple and pay a fee for "battery service", when the current fix is a CR2032 battery that's under $1.

23. franga2000 ◴[21 Dec 24 14:03 UTC] No.42479730{5}[source]▶
> If AirTags stopped notifying users they're being tracked, then AirTags would also be meant for tracking people.

What?? That's like by not including a sound device that screams "look out, you're being murdered!" on every hammer when it's swung, manufacturers are saying their hammers are also intended for murder.

Now that Apple has this feature, sure, removing it might raise some eyebrows, but the theft tracking use-case is so obvious and useful that no judge would ever believe that Apple did this specifically to enable stalking.

24. wyager ◴[21 Dec 24 16:40 UTC] No.42480598{5}[source]▶
Gun manufacturers could add pointless and customer-hostile complications to guns just like apple can add customer-hostile complications to airtags. The case against Apple is even stronger, because at least apple's complications have a chance of doing something useful, and Apple provides an ongoing service where firearm manufacturers do not.

There's also no reasonable standard by which you can claim guns are being made to murder people but AirTags are not being made to stalk people. A vanishingly small fraction of total sales ever goes towards either of these undesirable use cases.

The smart move here is to get your risk models in order and stop worrying about either of these things.

25. MikeRichardson ◴[21 Dec 24 16:48 UTC] No.42480653{3}[source]▶
I wonder a 3rd party tracker (using Find My network) could fool the iPhone somehow. Maybe if it does 1 minute on, 1 minute off, or something like that?