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Niantic plans a “Large Geospatial Model” trained on Pokémon Go player data

(nianticlabs.com)
430 points bookstore-romeo | 19 comments | 19 Nov 24 20:02 UTC | HN request time: 1.906s | source | bottom
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relyks ◴[20 Nov 24 22:26 UTC] No.42198768[source]▶
This is pretty cool, but I feel as a pokehunter (Pokemon Go player), I have been tricked into working to contribute training data so that they can profit off my labor. How? They consistently incentivize you to scan pokestops (physical locations) through "research tasks" and give you some useful items as rewards. The effort is usually much more significant than what you get in return, so I have stopped doing it. It's not very convenient to take a video around the object or location in question. If they release the model and weights, though, I will feel I contributed to the greater good.
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1. isodev ◴[21 Nov 24 04:15 UTC] No.42201047[source]▶
> I feel … I have been tricked

Everything “free” coming from a company means they’ve found a way to monetise you in some way. The big long ToS we all casually accept without reading says so too.

Other random examples which appear free but aren’t: using a search engine, using the browser that comes with your phone, instagram, YouTube… etc.

It’s not always about data collection, sometimes it’s platform lock-in, or something else but there is always a side of it that makes sense for their profit margin.

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2. hackernewds ◴[21 Nov 24 06:00 UTC] No.42201541[source]▶
only a sith speaks in absolute. plenty of especially free AI products out there
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3. isodev ◴[21 Nov 24 06:21 UTC] No.42201645[source]▶
Which are surely, totally not ingesting every iota of data they can get their hands on (legally or not, including your prompts) for training and the soon-to-be born “embedded ads”.
4. akritrime ◴[21 Nov 24 06:25 UTC] No.42201666[source]▶
and who is funding them? how are they paying for their servers? a product can't be free, someone somewhere is paying for it. the main question is why are they paying for it.
5. 9dev ◴[21 Nov 24 06:50 UTC] No.42201793[source]▶
Hiding shady or unexpected stuff in the TOS is illegal in the EU and other countries for example. So just because some companies behave amoral, that doesn’t mean we just have to accept hundreds of pages of legalese being able to dictate us.
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6. phito ◴[21 Nov 24 08:38 UTC] No.42202298[source]▶
We don't have to accept it no, but also you shouldn't be dumbfounded when it happens. Always assume everyone is doing it.
7. phito ◴[21 Nov 24 08:39 UTC] No.42202305[source]▶
They're free because they're either gathering more data or trying to capture the market.
8. RandomThoughts3 ◴[21 Nov 24 08:42 UTC] No.42202317[source]▶
I don’t think there is something amoral here. Niantic explicitly sends players to take videos of places for rewards. It’s not like it’s done in a sneaky way.

Being somehow surprised they actually plan to do things with the data they have you gather is a bit weird.

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9. kreddor ◴[21 Nov 24 08:50 UTC] No.42202355[source]▶
No such thing as a free lunch.
10. flir ◴[21 Nov 24 09:07 UTC] No.42202433[source]▶
Niantic have never made a secret of the fact that they're crowdsourcing to enrich their mapping data (eg data from Wayfarer and Ingress was used to seed Pokemon Go and Wizards Unite). I can't see it as a sudden gotcha, as it's practically their USP.
11. zorked ◴[21 Nov 24 10:19 UTC] No.42202789{3}[source]▶
No, it isn't. Stop normalizing this behavior. There was no consent. You expect that you are playing a game, not working for them for free.
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12. b3lvedere ◴[21 Nov 24 11:05 UTC] No.42203081{4}[source]▶
I absolutely agree with you that this should not be the norm. The fact is that "they" absolutely do it and even give you "rewards" for your behaviour and actions in the free game. Reminds me of a certain opiod crisis, but now it is combining software with the human phyche almost directly.
13. RandomThoughts3 ◴[21 Nov 24 11:15 UTC] No.42203126{4}[source]▶
Of course there was consent. There is even an explicit EULA listing in plain writing that you are actually collecting data for them that people have to agree to before playing.

That people suddenly wake up to the fact that they were dumb for providing labour for worthless virtual gifts doesn't magically allow them to claim it was abuse post-fact.

replies(1): >>42206707 #
14. georgeplusplus ◴[21 Nov 24 11:26 UTC] No.42203202{4}[source]▶
You were too lazy to read the rules of the game
15. isodev ◴[21 Nov 24 17:44 UTC] No.42206707{5}[source]▶
If people don’t read or understand the EULA, then it violates the spirit of the legislation (not to mention it’s plain shady). Consent must be voluntary (opt-in) and informed.
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16. RandomThoughts3 ◴[21 Nov 24 21:47 UTC] No.42209023{6}[source]▶
If you don’t read what you sign, it’s not uninformed consent. It’s you being an idiot.
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17. 9dev ◴[22 Nov 24 06:38 UTC] No.42211642{7}[source]▶
You can spin this both ways. So if I include a 12,000 page EULA with my product, you're the idiot if page 8,172 includes a footnote that allows me to sell your data, but uses terms defined a few thousand pages earlier, so you actually have to read all of it?

You can play these shenanigans with businesses, but I for one am happy such behaviour is illegal here when selling to consumers.

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18. RandomThoughts3 ◴[22 Nov 24 08:48 UTC] No.42212178{8}[source]▶
Don’t use product with EULA you refuse to read. Then people will stop including them. Especially when it’s a game.

Anyway I’m all for outlawing the inclusion of predatory clauses in EULA but this is not one of this case.

People just want to have their cake and eat it to.

19. zelphirkalt ◴[29 Nov 24 23:06 UTC] No.42277918{7}[source]▶
I assume you are reading all them EULAs of all products and services you use.