Most active commenters
  • s1artibartfast(6)

←back to thread

Undergraduates with family income below $200k will be tuition-free at MIT

(news.mit.edu)
737 points gnabgib | 18 comments | 20 Nov 24 16:59 UTC | HN request time: 1.479s | source | bottom
Show context
TheJoeMan ◴[20 Nov 24 19:26 UTC] No.42197249[source]▶
This is a great step in the right direction. I can't speak directly for MIT, but there are issues with how these programs don't apply to parents with small family businesses. My parents had a small business, with my father taking home a salary of $XX,XXX. Duke University used the business assets to determine the EFC (expected family contribution) of literally 90% of the salary. Essentially saying to sell off the family business for the college fund, which was a non-starter.

Small businesses are allegedly the backbone of America, and I feel these tuition support programs overlook this segment of the middle-class.

replies(21): >>42197538 #>>42197658 #>>42198000 #>>42198518 #>>42198630 #>>42198802 #>>42199002 #>>42199120 #>>42199126 #>>42199269 #>>42199949 #>>42200245 #>>42200451 #>>42200630 #>>42200685 #>>42200902 #>>42201562 #>>42202117 #>>42202554 #>>42203243 #>>42205511 #
s1artibartfast ◴[20 Nov 24 22:09 UTC] No.42198630[source]▶
Isn't the entire point of these assessments to look at total assets, and not just annual income?

I dont think this was an oversight or mistake. I think the expectation was that yes, people should sell assets if they have them .

replies(3): >>42198884 #>>42199290 #>>42199534 #
1. xboxnolifes ◴[20 Nov 24 22:39 UTC] No.42198884[source]▶
The "mistake" is that the assets themselves are the source of income. Sell them off, and the income goes away too. It's the equivalent of expecting the parents to use 100% of their income to put their kids into college, which is impossible.
replies(2): >>42198953 #>>42199287 #
2. Dylan16807 ◴[20 Nov 24 22:49 UTC] No.42198953[source]▶
A bunch of stock is a source of income too, but it wouldn't be wrong to use some of it.

If the business is worth enough then selling it can replace all the income you would have ever gotten from it. It's not as simple as "income goes away". The specific numbers make all the difference.

replies(1): >>42199183 #
3. bb88 ◴[20 Nov 24 23:21 UTC] No.42199183[source]▶
> A bunch of stock is a source of income too, but it wouldn't be wrong to use some of it.

Normal US tax law that most people fall under says no, stock itself is not income. It's only taxed at the time of sale. If you ask for mark to market taxing then any increase in market value during the calendar year will count as income -- even if you didn't sell anything throughout the year. But usually those people are drawing a direct income from trading.

replies(1): >>42199310 #
4. s1artibartfast ◴[20 Nov 24 23:34 UTC] No.42199287[source]▶
IF I have stock and make $XX,XXX in dividends, how is that different? IF I have own apartments and make $XX,XXX in rent, how is that different?

I think the idea is that Yes, the expectation is for people to make actual sacrifice before they qualify.

replies(4): >>42200269 #>>42200869 #>>42201033 #>>42202424 #
5. s1artibartfast ◴[20 Nov 24 23:36 UTC] No.42199310{3}[source]▶
Yes, but I think these tests look at both income and assets (like stock). That is why people get dinged for owning assets, even if they are a source of income.
6. adastra22 ◴[21 Nov 24 01:54 UTC] No.42200269[source]▶
If this was inventory they were counting, sure. But you can’t sell part of a small business. Let’s say the parents own a restaurant, and the value of the land, building, and kitchen equipment is a few million. Do they sell an oven from the kitchen to put you through school? Sell the parking lot?

It’s an all or nothing thing. The business needs all its assets to function, and shouldn’t be considered any more than for its income potential.

replies(2): >>42200964 #>>42219304 #
7. ehnto ◴[21 Nov 24 03:39 UTC] No.42200869[source]▶
That's economic suicide not sacrifice, for many small businesses the asset produces the revenue. Sell the asset you may as well close the business. It is not a fair assessment of a family's means at all.

It's not equivalent to making all your income off one rental and having to sell it, but it is closer to that. If you sell it, you have no income now. But a small business also creates jobs and provides novel value to the community, so even more is lost than just a single income.

8. throwaway2037 ◴[21 Nov 24 04:01 UTC] No.42200964{3}[source]▶
Lease back for land and building is definitely possible. Most capital efficient corps do not own their own land and buildings for precisely this reason.
replies(1): >>42201670 #
9. snowwrestler ◴[21 Nov 24 04:12 UTC] No.42201033[source]▶
It would be similar if your stock dividends were your sole irreplaceable means of support. So, you sell your stock and give the money to MIT. Now you can’t buy more stock, and therefore have no future income. Permanently ending your career to send your kid to college is an unreasonable sacrifice, in my book.
replies(1): >>42201090 #
10. s1artibartfast ◴[21 Nov 24 04:22 UTC] No.42201090{3}[source]▶
I wouldn't want to make that sacrifice either, but I also understand that im not entitled to tuition assistance as some sort of human right
replies(2): >>42201336 #>>42201611 #
11. snowwrestler ◴[21 Nov 24 05:11 UTC] No.42201336{4}[source]▶
No one is arguing it is some sort of human right. The argument is that being the owner-operator of a small business is a financially different situation from having a lot of liquid wealth sitting around. And that smart universities should figure that out so they don’t accidentally lose good students over silly structural flaws in their financial aid processes.
12. baq ◴[21 Nov 24 06:15 UTC] No.42201611{4}[source]▶
There are countries with free public respected universities. So yeah not a human right but not that far off depending on where you live.
replies(1): >>42204847 #
13. adastra22 ◴[21 Nov 24 06:26 UTC] No.42201670{4}[source]▶
It is sometimes an option, not always. Depends on the cash flow of the business and current market risks. Not every business is automatically eligible. Small mom and pop restaurants often can’t get a loan on demand, at least not on predatory terms.
14. xboxnolifes ◴[21 Nov 24 09:04 UTC] No.42202424[source]▶
Running a small business is not the same as owning stock. I can own stock and can still work and one does not affect the other in terms of time or capability. On the other hand, selling your small business is equivalent to quitting your job.
replies(1): >>42202867 #
15. michaelt ◴[21 Nov 24 10:32 UTC] No.42202867{3}[source]▶
Imagine I own farmland worth $10M.

I claim we've had a lean few years, as we had to replace some aged equipment. I'm working all the hours god sends and only making $30,000 a year. There's also, uh, inflation. Market volatility. Climate change. Rising fuel prices. And I'm really worried labour costs are about to rise under this new government.

I also claim we can't sell any of the land without undermining the commercial viability of the farm; and the land would be difficult to sell profitably, because anyone except me and my immediate neighbours would have to travel a long way to farm it. And the remainder of our capital is tied up in crops, which obviously we can't sell until harvest.

On the other hand, it's an almighty coincidence that I needed to replace my tractor, my combine harvester, my skid steer, and my truck all at the same time, just as my kid turned 17. And that I just planted all those apple trees, hops and asparagus that I won't be able to harvest for a few years.

And yet - should MIT be in the business of second-guessing how farmers run their farms? Should my kid be denied a scholarship because some desk jockey in Cambridge thinks he knows the asparagus market better than I do?

16. s1artibartfast ◴[21 Nov 24 14:53 UTC] No.42204847{5}[source]▶
yes, and Europe also has some extremely expensive private universities, and the US has vastly cheaper options than MIT.
17. jorvi ◴[23 Nov 24 05:07 UTC] No.42219304{3}[source]▶
Situation:

You have parents A, B and C.

- Parents A own a small business.

- Parents B sold their small business two years ago, and put the money in the stock market.

- Parents C just scrimped and scraped and over the years saved up money equal to parents A and B.

I’m not sure why you’re so hellbent on giving specifically parents A a free pass. Why the unequal treatment?

replies(1): >>42221948 #
18. s1artibartfast ◴[23 Nov 24 17:08 UTC] No.42221948{4}[source]▶
Thanks for explaining this much more clearly than I did.