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190 points amichail | 21 comments | | HN request time: 1.012s | source | bottom
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hntempacct99 ◴[] No.42194606[source]
From what I have seen using Bluesky this isn't true at all. It's brutally censored, even more than Twitter was in 2021. Or are there other relays and appviews I can use that aren't? Is there a comprehensive list of Bluesky infrastructure that isn't run by Bluesky themselves (excluding a PDS)? Or is it totally centralized for now?
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nick_ ◴[] No.42194628[source]
What brutal censorship have you observed?
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1. throwaboutbsky5 ◴[] No.42194761[source]
https://bsky.app/profile/sallgrover.bsky.social

https://x.com/salltweets/status/1857595757882188086

Sall Grover is the creator of a woman-only social app in Australia that was taken to court over that sex exclusivity. Posted a few controversial statements to test the atmosphere and this is the result.

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2. unclad5968 ◴[] No.42194947[source]
"censorship is fine as long as it's happening to people I don't agree with"
replies(2): >>42195060 #>>42195519 #
3. happytoexplain ◴[] No.42194959[source]
This is just the common case where it's a thing one could express a morally honest opinion about, even if it's emotional or negative, but is instead expressed curtly for the purpose of encouraging hatred broadly. I.e. it's the exact definition of trolling (and specifically, group-hatred by intrinsic qualities like sexual feelings, race, etc, which is understandably the most commonly moderated type of trolling). I'm not going to go so far as to say that all platforms must moderate that type of content, but it is of course a decision that falls within the realm of reason for any given platform. So, it seems dishonest to spit on it as "censorship" (ever more, "brutal censorship"), assuming you are agreeing with the GP.
replies(1): >>42197214 #
4. kspacewalk2 ◴[] No.42195029[source]
Judging purely from those Tweets, Sall is a troll who was correctly booted off a platform that is trying to improve the quality of discussions.
replies(1): >>42197208 #
5. tedajax ◴[] No.42195060{3}[source]
Generally speaking, in real life, people tend to get kicked out of places for being bigots.
replies(1): >>42197222 #
6. zb3 ◴[] No.42195347[source]
Yes, I want to decide what I want to read, and I don't care what you call "transphobia", especially since facts are often labeled as such.
7. intended ◴[] No.42195519{3}[source]
Yeah I’m done with this dishonesty. Perhaps you aren’t being dishonest, but this argument is the tip of the spear to justify harm of others.

I’ve been a mod. I hate the fact that my only option is to silence.

But by all that is holy I’m going to use all that I can when someone is using dishonest, malicious, malformed and malign arguments.

I have seen what happens when trolls run unchallenged.

——-

The great thing is that no two moderators will come to the same decision on a case, because context matters.

There is almost certainly a community where X type of content is welcome.

Why not go there ?

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8. plapplap ◴[] No.42197208[source]
She posted a factual statement to test the waters and was instantly censored for it.
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9. plapplap ◴[] No.42197214[source]
It's not hatred to point out that a man is a man. What a daft exaggeration.
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10. plapplap ◴[] No.42197222{4}[source]
There's nothing at all bigoted about pointing out that a man is a man. You just don't like this fact, so you've decided to label it as bigotry.
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11. r00fus ◴[] No.42198683{3}[source]
Doesn't seem factual to me. Smells like a troll or flamebait. Deserves to be moderated into the ground.
replies(1): >>42203003 #
12. nick_ ◴[] No.42199385{5}[source]
Do you think that there are only two combinations of chromosomes in humans? XX and XY?
replies(2): >>42202737 #>>42202763 #
13. happytoexplain ◴[] No.42199562{3}[source]
This is a very common form of dishonesty on this topic.

First, even if we give you the benefit of the doubt and say it is factual, you do not need to lie in order to spread hatred, or at the very least provoke/troll people. "But it's true" is a childish defense in that context. If you were being honest, you would defend the practice of provoking/trolling people regarding gender identity (rather than merely defending the generic concept of saying something factually true, which is akin to the classic "I'm not touching you" game of provocation). And to be clear: I am not arguing against that theoretical argument in this comment - I am just saying that you should make that argument, since clearly you believe it but are being oblique about it.

Secondarily (and I do mean secondarily - it's entirely subservient to the first point and basically just an exercise in argument): The statement isn't factual, since it's just disagreeing with a context in which a word is used. It's literally a semantic argument, which is always more or less subjective.

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14. happytoexplain ◴[] No.42199667{3}[source]
I don't think it's an exaggeration, and I don't think it's daft - I think the point of the common quips of the general format "trans 'women' are men", without more context, are almost always (and obviously in this case) simple provocations, intended to disparage and humiliate, in addition to serving as slogans that implicitly support an unstated argument. However, we have no way of knowing which arguments they are supporting, aside from a broad and unnecessarily bitter rejection of the concept of people who feel mentally like a different gender from their biological gender.

So, purely as a random example: One of those unstated arguments is often the "don't let trans women into women's bathrooms" debate. I sympathize greatly with women who don't feel comfortable sharing a bathroom with trans women, and don't think anybody should be put through that (and I also sympathize with the trans woman's side of that problem, and have no good solution to offer to either side, but that's beside the point I'm making), but despite sharing that sympathy, I don't pretend to be unable to recognize hateful versions of that "sympathy" - that would be petty ideology.

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15. unclad5968 ◴[] No.42199971{4}[source]
If someone decided you weren't allowed to participate in this community for using "schizoid" in a derogatory fashion I'd call it censorship all the same.
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16. intended ◴[] No.42202225{5}[source]
I’m kinda flattered my post history was even looked at.

Your position conflate the limited power mode have with tan ideological harm.

The surest tonic for this is to volunteer as a mod. Please try. I got into it because I felt I had to put my money where my mouth. Most mod teams need volunteers, and normal people to share their experiences.

By your criteria police are simply violent. Judges are simply judgemental. Heck everyone with a gun is a violent person.

17. Jensson ◴[] No.42202737{6}[source]
I think they are happy if all XY are classified as men and all XX are classified as women, can do whatever you want with the rest.
18. plapplap ◴[] No.42202763{6}[source]
I have studied sex chromosome aneuploidies in humans, so no, I don't think that.

Why do you ask?

19. plapplap ◴[] No.42202826{4}[source]
But this is strong disagreement you are talking about, not hatred.

And if you look at the history of what Sall Grover has had to endure regarding this issue - being harassed, threatened, dragged through the legal system - it's very obvious why she strongly disagrees with the idea that some men are women, and why she is so very outspoken in drawing a line in the sand on this.

20. plapplap ◴[] No.42202937{4}[source]
Let's say she was testing the moderation system on a different topic. For example she'd posted the statement "Jesus was nothing more than a man", which resulted in her post being instantly censored and her profile slapped with a content warning.

Would you still be making the claim that she is "spreading hatred"?

I would still say she was making a factual statement that she was censored for. As we have evidence that this person was a historical figure and not just some figment of fiction. Only those with a particular ideological belief, i.e. most Christians, think there's more to it.

Fortunately that's not what happened, and such ideologues are not in charge of imposing those beliefs on others via Bluesky's moderation system. But it's clear that those who assert that some men are women are imposing their beliefs. Which is exactly what Sall demonstrated.

21. plapplap ◴[] No.42203003{4}[source]
Why doesn't it seem factual to you?