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Two undersea cables in Baltic Sea disrupted

(www.cnn.com)
577 points mooreds | 11 comments | 18 Nov 24 14:31 UTC | HN request time: 1.771s | source | bottom
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leshokunin ◴[18 Nov 24 20:06 UTC] No.42176328[source]▶
The constant Russian interference, combined with the regular escalation from the jets patrolling, and the radar jamming, really needs to be dealt with.

We're stuck between having to do timid actions and full NATO escalation. This feels like constant creep.

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JumpCrisscross ◴[18 Nov 24 21:00 UTC] No.42176978[source]▶
> We're stuck between having to do timid actions and full NATO escalation

If only there were someone applying pressure to Russia we could have fight for us!

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PKop ◴[18 Nov 24 21:12 UTC] No.42177095[source]▶
So sacrifice more Ukrainian men for the meat grinder? What has that accomplished so far?
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1. JumpCrisscross ◴[18 Nov 24 21:16 UTC] No.42177135[source]▶
> sacrifice more Ukrainian men for the meat grinder?

To the extent there's a meat grinder, it's of Russians [1].

> What has that accomplished so far?

Russia's disqualifying itself as a conventional military threat for at least a generation. It's not yet there yet, largely because Ukraine has been unable to target its war marchine. But the startling inefficacy of its army and technology has been made clear. Moreover, the front line has been maintained in Ukraine: that keeps them further from NATO and thus American and European boys at home.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrain...

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2. aguaviva ◴[18 Nov 24 21:23 UTC] No.42177213[source]▶
To the extent there's a meat grinder, it's of Russians.

That seems unfair. It's more of a meat grinder for the aggressor, but it's also one for the Ukrainians, by all indications.

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3. PKop ◴[18 Nov 24 21:26 UTC] No.42177234[source]▶
>To the extent there's a meat grinder, it's of Russians

It's of both. Why deny the fact Ukrainian men are dying in droves? This is disrespectful of those that paid the ultimate sacrifice. Pretending this is not extremely costly to Ukraine in manpower is denying reality. They have been increasing the age of conscripts as they're running out of young men.

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4. JumpCrisscross ◴[18 Nov 24 21:29 UTC] No.42177274[source]▶
> Why deny the fact Ukrainian men are dying in droves?

Nobody is. Meat grinder means excessive loss relative to necessity. The Ukranians are being slaughtered, but not mindlessly. They're fighting efficiently in respect of manpower.

Also, had we given Ukraine all the weapons it asked for in 2022, we probably wouldn't have had a meat grinder.

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5. maximilianburke ◴[18 Nov 24 21:30 UTC] No.42177286[source]▶
And, hence, we should give them all the arms and tools they need and the freedom to use them to end it quickly. The dithering on behalf of Biden and Scholz is what's prolonging this.
6. aguaviva ◴[18 Nov 24 23:10 UTC] No.42178179{3}[source]▶
It has already been acknowledged that the rates are "lopsided", i.e. that Russian loss rates are higher than Ukrainian loss rates.

But none of what you're saying means that Ukraine isn't also suffering from a very high loss rate.

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7. chgs ◴[19 Nov 24 06:45 UTC] No.42180635{5}[source]▶
Tens of thousands of Ukrainians have died, maybe hunderds of thousands.
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8. sedan_baklazhan ◴[19 Nov 24 06:57 UTC] No.42180693[source]▶
1. Ukrainian borders are closed from day one. 2. Russian borders are open from day one. 3. Ukrainian conscription is keeping on going from day one, taking radical form in recent year or so (men being violently dragged from streets) 4. Russia has had a single conscription which lasted 3 months. 5. Ukrainians are risking their lives fleeing the country via rivers and mountains. Many escapers were found shot. 6. You can take a plane and emigrate from Russia. No obstacles.

Yet you insist there are much more casualties in Russia. Where’s the logic here?

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9. aguaviva ◴[19 Nov 24 10:03 UTC] No.42181753{6}[source]▶
Not "hundreds of thousands". That's just pure anxiety.

Reliable estimate ranges are out there. They're easy to find. If you want to, you can find them.

They're all below 100k.

10. Sabinus ◴[19 Nov 24 11:12 UTC] No.42182197[source]▶
Russia has a 3x larger population and so far has had the luxury of being able to pay (relatively) extremely high wages to entice people to go.
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11. sedan_baklazhan ◴[19 Nov 24 12:08 UTC] No.42182555{3}[source]▶
Military wages are more or less the same. Russia has 3x more population but we're told that Russia suffers many times bigger losses vs ukrainian.