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Nordic neighbours release new advice on surviving war

(www.bbc.co.uk)
113 points concerto | 9 comments | 18 Nov 24 16:19 UTC | HN request time: 1.202s | source | bottom
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hagbard_c ◴[18 Nov 24 19:14 UTC] No.42175831[source]▶
Nothing new here, the Swedish government has been publishing this guide since the second world war [1] and updates it regularly. It is not directly related to an increase in international tensions and would have been published even if Putin and his cronies were out on the pony farm. The last update was published in 2017/2018 by the previous labour-led government, now that Sweden is part of NATO it needed an update to reflect that fact. Previous versions were published in 1943, 1952, 1961, 1978, 1983, 1987, 1989, 1991 and 2017/2018.

[1] https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Om_kriget_kommer

replies(1): >>42175863 #
1. piva00 ◴[18 Nov 24 19:18 UTC] No.42175863[source]▶
I still have mine from 2017 in a kitchen drawer, as an immigrant it was quite informative, it's how I've learned that Sweden will never surrender and any messaging about it is enemy agitation to be ignored.
replies(1): >>42176050 #
2. rightbyte ◴[18 Nov 24 19:35 UTC] No.42176050[source]▶
> that Sweden will never surrender and any messaging about it is enemy agitation to be ignored.

Oh ye, the outlawing of losing wars. Not very convincing for adults but I guess teenagers think it sounds cool.

replies(2): >>42176123 #>>42177905 #
3. hagbard_c ◴[18 Nov 24 19:44 UTC] No.42176123[source]▶
The "Sweden will never surrender" part refers to the brochure warning against enemy propaganda which suggests that Swedish forces have surrendered and people should leave enemy forces unharmed. It is mentioned on page 5 of the English-language brochure:

https://rib.msb.se/filer/pdf/30874.pdf

replies(1): >>42176418 #
4. rightbyte ◴[18 Nov 24 20:15 UTC] No.42176418{3}[source]▶
So how do you enforce an armistice when the standing order is "never to surrender"? I.e. not "enemy propaganda" but government orders. You would have units disregarding it left and right.

I don't think it is a good idea to give the soldiers the impression that they will fight to the last man, since that encourages killing their officers at an earlier stage than they would otherwise. Preferably, you want to lure with some peace agreement that is just around the corner, such that the soldiers believe that there is hope for them.

replies(2): >>42177962 #>>42189580 #
5. piva00 ◴[18 Nov 24 22:42 UTC] No.42177905[source]▶
It's part of the defence strategy to not allow quick capitulation due to enemy's propaganda, the idea is to form armed resistance on the vast Swedish forests as a last resort for insurgency.

Of course if pushes come to shove the reality is not black and white, no need to be an asshole about it because every adult understands that, quite juvenile of you to think they don't. Guess your kind of rhetoric earn points with the teens, no?

replies(1): >>42178286 #
6. hagbard_c ◴[18 Nov 24 22:49 UTC] No.42177962{4}[source]▶
Swedish defence is organised according to a system called 'totalförsvar' or 'total defence' which includes not only fighting forces (army, air force, navy, marines, etc.) but also civilian support forces. People who are included in this system - which can be anything from medical personnel to linemen and truck drivers - have assigned roles and a command structure or 'krigsplacering' (wartime assignment). The message that 'Sweden will never surrender' is aimed mostly at civilians who are outside of the military command structure but may be included in the civilian support forces. It is not aimed at keeping some bearded Swede with a rusty axe hiding in the north-western mountains for 30 years after Sweden has lost a war, it is aimed at the trucker who may be exposed to enemy propaganda.

If Sweden ever were to surrender in war it will most likely be broadcast by the prime minister and/or the king/queen (Sweden is a constitutional monarchy). Until such a time and until such a message is confirmed we'll just assume that Sweden has not surrendered.

7. rightbyte ◴[18 Nov 24 23:21 UTC] No.42178286{3}[source]▶
> no need to be an asshole about it because every adult understands that, quite juvenile of you to think they don't.

I am sorry. I agree most people 'get it'. The point I am trying to make is that those who don't 'get it' are a big problem if you have nifty slogans like that. Also in a non-total war setting.

> Guess your kind of rhetoric earn points with the teens, no?

I honestly believe that my rhetoric would score very low amongst teens.

replies(1): >>42182049 #
8. GJim ◴[19 Nov 24 10:49 UTC] No.42182049{4}[source]▶
American perceptions (like yours) tend to be very literal and absolutist. Nobody in Sweden will have difficulty with this wording!
9. mewpmewp2 ◴[20 Nov 24 00:26 UTC] No.42189580{4}[source]▶
> I don't think it is a good idea to give the soldiers the impression that they will fight to the last man, since that encourages killing their officers at an earlier stage than they would otherwise. Preferably, you want to lure with some peace agreement that is just around the corner, such that the soldiers believe that there is hope for them.

I think you are confusing Sweden with some other country.