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113 points concerto | 7 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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Mistletoe[dead post] ◴[] No.42174256[source]
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xdennis[dead post] ◴[] No.42174568[source]
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andy24 ◴[] No.42174726[source]
I’m Russian, am I the problem? We need @dang here to address this racism here.
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romwell ◴[] No.42174992[source]
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1. mdp2021 ◴[] No.42175236[source]
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2. aguaviva ◴[] No.42175767[source]
Ask historians: you may get surprised.

What they will tell you is -- up until the genocide against the Tatars (and other groups), the majority of its population was always solidly non-Russian.

And that its prior ownership by whichever colonial powers is entirely irrelevant to its current legal jurisdiction.

Which is unambiguously Ukrainian.

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3. mdp2021 ◴[] No.42176320[source]
Well, one example is Gérard Chaliand, who is very flat on (his conclusions on) the matter soon after the question at 14:16 :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr5PRtnqaWI

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4. aguaviva ◴[] No.42176511{3}[source]
And when he flatly says "the population became 80-85 percent Russian", he's referring to the time period after the 1944 genocide (which he's choosing not to mention for for some reason). Before which the Russian population was, as he knows, always a minority. Moreover, essentially all of the influx of non-indigenous groups after 1783 was as a result of settler-colonialist policies of the Russian and Soviet empires. Before which the population was 93 percent Tatar, about 7 percent other groups -- with no Russian population to speak of.

Which he's also not telling you, for some reason.

See also: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lying_by_omission

5. dang ◴[] No.42177582[source]
Please don't take HN threads further into nationalistic flamewar, regardless of nation.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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6. mdp2021 ◴[] No.42177829[source]
Sorry Dang, but that was not related to nationalistic flamewar - I do not see how. Edit: well, it could have kindled fire with a different public, but you did a good job in educating this one...

About Crimea, it seemed that the poster proposed a clear-cut situation, to which I replied with a prestigious example of disagreement: Gérard Chaliand. That has nothing to do with any nationalism. It just happen to be a position (an intellectual position) that some nationalists will appreciate more than others - but that is just a coincidence. The intellectual in question is French; the rebuttal from Aguaviva is appreciated.

The latter part of the post from Romwell, I honestly and not without some reason mistook for a statement that "if you are a citizen for nation N, democratic, then you are responsible for the actions of your governments". Being that a twisted idea, that Romwell in the end does not hold but as I also specified later some people do hold, I countered it. Again, this does not seem to be to be especially tied to nationalism.

It seems to me that we all discussed in very civilized manner - rhetoric aside. (From my post replying to Romwell on, I mean.)

If I am missing any detail (as I seem to be), please indicate.

Edit: Dang, are you simply afraid that people will "trigger"? If so, I think this branch proves otherwise... It seems to show that we are able to discuss quite rationally (well, with these members we have been lucky).

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7. romwell ◴[] No.42179529{3}[source]
Seconding this, and wanted to emphasize that I see no issue with your responses or questions (and don't really understand why you've been downvoted either — advice on style appreciated).

As I wrote in the other comment, my point of asking those questions was to get answers from the Russian person who asked what's wrong with them specifically, not from other people (as the subject I wanted to discuss was, ultimately, why people could see well meaning Russians as a threat based on responses to those questions).

But I didn't make it clear (and again, corrections on style were very welcome!), and the points mdp2021 brought up were valid.

As far as I can tell, we didn't disagree on anything.

mdp2021 lacked some of the context, but so would most people, including me prior to the 2022 invasion.

So, dang's reaction seems unwarranted.