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The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

(www.wsj.com)
152 points voisin | 9 comments | 17 Nov 24 23:52 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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latentcall ◴[18 Nov 24 16:08 UTC] No.42173727[source]▶
I would love a 10-15K BYD. I was told recently desiring a BYD is un-American when I can spend 3 times the price on a Tesla. No thanks! I’ll hold out for something truly cheap. Cars in America are insanely priced.
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rootusrootus ◴[18 Nov 24 16:20 UTC] No.42173877[source]▶
Protecting local manufacturers from cheap offshore labor is rational, especially if the offshore products are being subsidized specifically to undermine incumbents and put them out of business. I get that individual consumers want the cheapest trinket they can find, but the gov't has to be more strategic. And every country does this, including the one that would be the source of these trinkets.
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1. glial ◴[18 Nov 24 16:54 UTC] No.42174270[source]▶
I exclusively buy Toyotas because they are cheaper to maintain than American cars. Is your argument that I shouldn't have access to Japanese cars either?

I understand the desire to have a strategic reserve of manufacturing capacity. However, the US also subsidizes the US auto industry heavily by e.g. bailing out GM and Chrysler. It frustrates me that US car manufacturers continue to make exclusively heavy, low-efficiency vehicles. Give me something inexpensive, safe, efficient, reliable, and I'll buy it.

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2. InDubioProRubio ◴[18 Nov 24 16:57 UTC] No.42174297[source]▶
The protectionism there deformed the product and thus, the limited offerings are a result of the inability to compete in these segments.
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3. Rebelgecko ◴[18 Nov 24 17:14 UTC] No.42174504[source]▶
Most (maybe all?) Toyota in the US are actually made in America. If you look at the various "Made In America" indexes that take into account factories, supply chain, etc, the Camry does better than anything from Detroit
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4. rootusrootus ◴[18 Nov 24 17:32 UTC] No.42174711[source]▶
> I exclusively buy Toyotas because they are cheaper to maintain than American cars.

I think Teslas are actually cheapest, by brand.

> It frustrates me that US car manufacturers continue to make exclusively heavy, low-efficiency vehicles.

The market has decided that they want cars from Toyota and trucks from Detroit. I can't really blame the automakers from focusing on what makes them the best profit.

I'd dispute the low efficiency claim. My Ford pickup is way more efficient than anything Toyota makes. And even strictly comparing like-for-like, Toyota is on the lower efficiency end of that market.

5. NotSammyHagar ◴[18 Nov 24 17:36 UTC] No.42174756[source]▶
There have been people who wanted much more protectionism from Japanese autos since the 1970s, esp. since they demonstrated they make great cars for less money and detroit wasn't really interested in trying too hard.

History looked like it was going to repeat with EVs from the US except for Tesla. Now GM has some decent cars across a variety of models, Ford has 2. But neither company has put out any really low priced cars yet (you know, like under 30). Tesla (lead by darth vader) is the only hope for the near future of low priced cars. I think ford and gm will get there eventually. But it could be too late if imports can just come in.

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6. sleepybrett ◴[18 Nov 24 17:41 UTC] No.42174810[source]▶
The product deformed due to lack of ingenuity related to the CAFE standards.
7. isanengineer ◴[18 Nov 24 17:54 UTC] No.42174939[source]▶
There's some interesting history here. Toyota started manufacturing in North America in the 70s-80s largely due to pressure from the US government in the form of tariffs and import restrictions. For example, from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Motor_North_America:

"Toyota’s first manufacturing investment in the United States came in 1972 when the company struck a deal with Atlas Fabricators, to produce truck beds in Long Beach, in an effort to avoid the 25% "chicken tax" on imported light trucks." ... "After the successes of the 1970s, and the threats of import restrictions, Toyota started making additional investments in the North American market in the 1980s. In 1981, Japan agreed to voluntary export restraints, which limited the number of vehicles the nation would send to the United States each year, leading Toyota to establish assembly plants in North America."

The book "The Machine That Changed the World", while a bit dated, gives a great overview of the history of Toyota from US automaker perspective.

8. EasyMark ◴[18 Nov 24 18:23 UTC] No.42175299[source]▶
Most of the Toyotas sold in America and made in America
9. _jules ◴[18 Nov 24 23:21 UTC] No.42178296[source]▶
While not an EV, but a hybrid - I'm the lucky owner of an affordable Ford Maverick little truck. From what I can tell, Ford makes a lot of sweet $$$ selling the F series trucks and does not really care about low margins.