←back to thread

152 points voisin | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source
Show context
bartvk ◴[] No.42168473[source]
https://archive.ph/9oIT4

I wish it would have adjusted for inflation. One quote: "The average transaction price for a new vehicle sold in the U.S. last month was $48,623, according to Kelley Blue Book, roughly $10,000 higher than in 2019, before the pandemic." However, about 9200 euros of that is due to inflation according to this calculator: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

That's a nitpick though. All in all, an interesting article, which can be summarized as: the EV car market is lacking demand, and car makers definitely don't want to make cheap EVs since it's already so hard.

replies(6): >>42168514 #>>42168570 #>>42168574 #>>42168580 #>>42174015 #>>42174403 #
rootusrootus ◴[] No.42168514[source]
> the EV car market is lacking demand

There is scant evidence for this. Every time prices improve, sales surge. Sounds like the demand is there, but price matters. As it always has.

replies(5): >>42168553 #>>42168564 #>>42168764 #>>42173130 #>>42174414 #
vundercind ◴[] No.42173130[source]
I can't make great use of a full EV but would love more AWD PHEV options, of which there are currently few and they're mostly very expensive. A PHEV can be my everything-car that runs entirely on electricity for 90% of trips. I assume there's some reason they're not a more widely-supported option, but damn, I wish they were more common.
replies(7): >>42173295 #>>42173313 #>>42173354 #>>42173428 #>>42173878 #>>42174045 #>>42174402 #
yurishimo ◴[] No.42173354{3}[source]
They aren't more widely supported because they are more expensive and more complicated to manufacture with a higher potential for more stuff to go wrong.

Until the engine that powers a PHEV is nearly drop-in ready for a replacement (for example, going to your local auto parts store and buying a replacement like a battery) then companies need to have service technicians and production lines to support these "engines" (they're fancy generators at this point).

However, that would also require automakers to standardize to some degree or potentially cannibalize their own business.

We've already seen this with batteries/panels in the consumer space in regards to solar. I can buy whatever packs of cells I want, and as long as the voltages match up, I can mix and match to my hearts content. If I can only get service for my Jeep PHEV from Jeep because the drivetrain is a bespoke black box and parts are impossible to get, then we'll keep seeing customers continuing to opt for traditional gas vehicles or full EVs. PHEV is just too complicated to support long term (imo).

If 90% of your trips can be covered by a normal EV, then I would make the argument that you should buy one of those (secondhand even!) and then rent a vehicle for the instances where you need AWD. The fuel and tax savings should likely make up for it in the long run. For that one year that you don't go skiing in the mountains, then you're coming out on top financially!

replies(2): >>42173607 #>>42174318 #
1. toast0 ◴[] No.42173607{4}[source]
> PHEV is just too complicated to support long term (imo).

PHEV isn't that much more complex than an ICE. The transaxle is typically mechanically simpler, and you have two electric motor/generators instead of an electric motor (starter) and an electric generator (alternator). There's a big battery you need to find room for, and the power wiring. And the engine control is significantly different, but if it doesn't work, swap the ECU works as well for an ICE and PHEV.

replies(1): >>42173957 #
2. adolph ◴[] No.42173957[source]
>> PHEV is just too complicated to support long term (imo).

> PHEV isn't that much more complex than an ICE.

I've been an owner/operator of two Gen3 Prii for 14 years and agree in practice even though in theory I would agree with the complexity argument. The one maintenance hit for both was for the vacuum pump needed for brakes/etc because the car cannot assume the engine is always running.

Toyota has moved to hybrid only for the Camry and Sienna. This is an indicator to me that technology maturity and US manufacturing is where it needs to be for broad adoption.

replies(1): >>42175705 #
3. bluGill ◴[] No.42175705[source]
Vacuum not being reliable has been a thing for decades - diesel engines don't produce vacuum and so vacuum pumps are available off the shelf. If anything those vacuum pumps are oversized for cars since they are mostly used on large trucks.