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The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

(www.wsj.com)
152 points voisin | 14 comments | 17 Nov 24 23:52 UTC | HN request time: 1.073s | source | bottom
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bartvk ◴[18 Nov 24 00:05 UTC] No.42168473[source]▶
https://archive.ph/9oIT4

I wish it would have adjusted for inflation. One quote: "The average transaction price for a new vehicle sold in the U.S. last month was $48,623, according to Kelley Blue Book, roughly $10,000 higher than in 2019, before the pandemic." However, about 9200 euros of that is due to inflation according to this calculator: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

That's a nitpick though. All in all, an interesting article, which can be summarized as: the EV car market is lacking demand, and car makers definitely don't want to make cheap EVs since it's already so hard.

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rootusrootus ◴[18 Nov 24 00:10 UTC] No.42168514[source]▶
> the EV car market is lacking demand

There is scant evidence for this. Every time prices improve, sales surge. Sounds like the demand is there, but price matters. As it always has.

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blackeyeblitzar ◴[18 Nov 24 00:20 UTC] No.42168564[source]▶
I guess I don’t understand the advantage of EVs really. Isn’t a plug in hybrid the best option? You can do everyday short trips on battery but also have the gas engine for longer trips. Sure it is more complicated but Toyota has shown that you can make this super reliable.
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jaco6 ◴[18 Nov 24 00:31 UTC] No.42168618[source]▶
An advantage of a pure EV over a hybrid is that you don’t have the maintenance liability of the combustion engine, cooling system, and transmission.
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1. jader201 ◴[18 Nov 24 01:03 UTC] No.42168770[source]▶
And brakes. My brake pads rarely touch my rotors.

Not only does this (and the things you pointed out) reduce the cost of maintenance, it saves on trips to get them done, and the headaches of the pressure most put on you to get things done you don’t need, just so they can make even more money off of you.

Also, EVs on the highway (when hybrids are using the ICE) are much quieter, and have more torque.

The only downsides I have noticed are:

- Higher up front cost (though I don’t think hybrids are much cheaper)

- Heavier = more frequent tire changes (again, not sure hybrids are much better)

- Range for long road trips, resulting in having to pause for long charges, and having to plan your route in advance (definitely not a problem for hybrids)

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2. warner25 ◴[18 Nov 24 04:02 UTC] No.42169619[source]▶
> And brakes. My brake pads rarely touch my rotors.

I still have the original brake pads on my 2008 Prius with 150k miles. (And yes, I have them measured periodically to see if they're still good.) This is typical.

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3. wenc ◴[18 Nov 24 04:57 UTC] No.42169826[source]▶
Is that right?

With torque blending, regen braking is blended with friction braking at low speeds (when regen braking is ineffective). Friction braking is always needed to make a full stop.

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4. saati ◴[18 Nov 24 15:05 UTC] No.42172948[source]▶
Kinetic energy is a function of velocity squared, low speed breaking damages the pads way less.
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5. vundercind ◴[18 Nov 24 15:23 UTC] No.42173171[source]▶
I'd assumed PHEVs would include regenerative braking. Do they not?
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6. edaemon ◴[18 Nov 24 15:37 UTC] No.42173348[source]▶
Friction braking is rarely needed to make a full stop. My EV only applies blended braking in specific conditions (cold temps, steep hills, and full battery) and I essentially never touch the brake pedal.
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7. kube-system ◴[18 Nov 24 15:40 UTC] No.42173389[source]▶
They do. PHEVs and even HEVs are very easy on their brake pads. Usually to a lesser degree than BEVs, but it is not uncommon for even traditional hybrid owners to never need brake pad replacement for their entire ownership of a vehicle.
8. sgerenser ◴[18 Nov 24 15:47 UTC] No.42173476[source]▶
Yes, all PHEVs have regenerative braking. I sold my Chevy Volt a few months back with 50K miles and the brakes were like brand new. It’s very possible that they’ll outlive the rest of the car.
9. mrguyorama ◴[18 Nov 24 16:35 UTC] No.42174052[source]▶
What usually kills that age of Toyota brakes is not use, but rust. I've had all 4 corners rust to death on my 2004 vintage Toyota. They use terrible metal that just cannot resist rust at all.
10. wenc ◴[18 Nov 24 17:44 UTC] No.42174843{3}[source]▶
You may not touch the brake pedal but the brake pads are still being used to make a complete stop (this is how regen braking systems work, at low speeds regen is not effective so brake pads are used for the last few feet).

You’ll use wear out your brake pads way less, but they are still used very frequently (every time you make a complete stop in fact).

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11. wenc ◴[18 Nov 24 17:45 UTC] No.42174846{3}[source]▶
Sure but the pads are still being used frequently even with regen braking.
12. jader201 ◴[18 Nov 24 21:35 UTC] No.42177338[source]▶
> Friction braking is always needed to make a full stop.

In my EV6, I have a paddle on the left of my steering wheel that I use (almost) exclusively for braking. It 100% only uses regenerative braking, and I can definitely tell the difference, as its stops are much more subtle than when using the brake pedal for stopping (even when coming to a stop super gently).

More evidence that it doesn't use friction brakes: when I use the left paddle to brake, the car will sometimes edge forward (just an inch or two). With friction braking, this obviously never happens.

13. Sohcahtoa82 ◴[18 Nov 24 21:55 UTC] No.42177533{3}[source]▶
Are you sure it's not actually applying friction brakes?

I have a Model 3, and even when the driving mode is set to "Stop" (enabling one-pedal driving), I know that it's applying the friction brakes at low speeds, even when the battery is warm and not full.

Regen isn't enough to slow the car to a stop, even in ideal conditions, and it certainly can't hold the car in place.

14. edaemon ◴[19 Nov 24 05:41 UTC] No.42180366{4}[source]▶
My mistake, I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you meant that regen braking on its own wasn't strong enough to slow the vehicle down. You're right that friction brakes are applied for the last little bit to come to a complete stop and hold.