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399 points gmays | 12 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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root_axis ◴[] No.42166375[source]
Doesn't seem like there is any foreseeable future where climate change can be addressed. It's not just the leadership of the u.s, but the citizens themselves reject climate change as a real issue. Hopefully I'm just being pessemsitic.
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baq ◴[] No.42166433[source]
Oh a lot of those citizens care - it’s that they travel to Japan for vacation anyway.
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1. autoexec ◴[] No.42166908[source]
Let's not pretend that the family vacation is the real driver to climate change. Most Americans aren't jet-setting on a regular basis.
replies(1): >>42167545 #
2. moffkalast ◴[] No.42167545[source]
Air travel is only 11% of all transport emissions, so it's not all that significant, especially given that it's often the only real option for covering vast distances.

But Americans do drive everywhere, and that's 48% of all transport emissions (just cars, not even counting trucks, with that it's more like 73% for all road transport). So yeah. Nobody gives a fuck.

replies(2): >>42168211 #>>42169107 #
3. reducesuffering ◴[] No.42168211[source]
X is only Y% of emissions is the NIMBY of climate change. You can slice every single emissions source as "only Y% of emissions, you should worry about the others first", and then nothing is done on any of them. No, you tackle everything above 0.5%. Otherwise, the SUV's say blame the private jets, the private jets say blame the SUV's, the public transport blames the EV's, America blames China, China blames America's past, the consumers blame the producers and the producers blame the consumers, etc.
replies(2): >>42168274 #>>42168335 #
4. moffkalast ◴[] No.42168274{3}[source]
Well sure, but not all fields have zero emissions solutions available. Solutions need to be found, but they might not be there in time.

General power production is currently 25% of total, we can fix that with hydro, wind, solar, nuclear. Plans are clear, they need to be put into action.

Agriculture is another 25% which will be a candidate for reduction once there's something more energy dense than diesel available to run every tractor and combine harvester in the world (currently looking like never). EV tractors are in the golf cart stage of usefulness. Not something we can realistically reduce by much if you want to continue eating food.

Home emissions are only 6-8%, but we can easily drive that to zero with induction cookers and ban of fuel oil heating, subsidizing heat pumps and district heating.

Of the 14% that is transport, cars can go EV and vans/trucks for city last mile delivery. Semi trucks should be replaced as much as possible by electric trains (good luck building that much rail though). On the other hand planes can't even ditch leaded fuel for piston engines yet, they're so far behind. Electric planes are a 1 hour flight time joke, hydrogen use is nonexistent. Sea shipping can go battery electric as well although it would be incredibly expensive.

How much we can cut down in the 20% that's emitted by industry is a good question that I have little insight into. I presume some chemical processes inherently release CO2, but there is a lot that can likely be done.

5. autoexec ◴[] No.42168335{3}[source]
There's a long history of putting the blame for climate change on the everyday actions of individuals so that industry can avoid scrutiny. They'd love it if we devoted our time and effort to policing our neighbors for what car they drive or how often they go to the store or a doctor instead of focusing on the few sources that cause 80% (https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/since-2016-80-perc...) of global CO2 emissions or at the harms being caused by the Ag and food industry.

It's very appropriate to pull out "X is only Y% of emissions" when there are vastly larger targets we should be concerning ourselves with. Admitting where the problem actually lies doesn't absolve individuals of all responsibly or prevent individuals from making smarter choices. Very few people need a truck or SUV and we'd all be better off with fewer of them on the road, but it's that's the last thing we should be worried about when it comes to meaningfully addressing climate change.

replies(1): >>42170136 #
6. consteval ◴[] No.42169107[source]
Americans have no choice, it's either drive or die. Your car is more important in this country than your job, ask any poor person.
replies(1): >>42170085 #
7. lukan ◴[] No.42170085{3}[source]
But most people do have a choice whether they fly around the world for vacation - or not.
replies(1): >>42173946 #
8. lukan ◴[] No.42170136{4}[source]
"80 Percent of Global CO2 Emissions Come From Just 57 Companies"

Oh, so we just have to take down those evil corporations and then everything will be solved?

That is how it sounds like. Easy solution. Except - who will then produce and deliver the cheap food and products for the poor unresponsible individuals to consume?

9. consteval ◴[] No.42173946{4}[source]
Yes, but the amount of people "flying around" is pretty small, and the cost of economy air travel is next to nothing in comparison to daily commutes by car. Keep in mind you share that plane with hundreds of people.
replies(1): >>42182682 #
10. lukan ◴[] No.42182682{5}[source]
It all adds up.

The impact of one billionare jetting around the world for fun alone, is pretty small as well.

But if all the billionares are doing it, it already adds up to a impressive number.

And if you choose to jet around the world for vacation - then this alone is pretty neglectible, too. But all the other people also doing it isn't.

And yes, there are more people in a plane. Just like in a train or bus. Yet they are way more efficient. Only very few people driver alone over 1000 km for vacation.

replies(1): >>42184704 #
11. consteval ◴[] No.42184704{6}[source]
This is true and I agree, but when it comes to solving problems, you should start with the most obvious and easy solutions first. The low-hanging fruit. The amount of transportation by plane is so incredibly small as compared to car that IMO it shouldn't be a starting point.

We should look to lowering our plastic consumption, electrifying American homes, and building transportation infrastructure so walking, biking, and public transit become more viable.

replies(1): >>42189330 #
12. lukan ◴[] No.42189330{7}[source]
"We should look to lowering our plastic consumption, electrifying American homes, and building transportation infrastructure so walking, biking, and public transit become more viable."

Or all of it and reduce flying as well?

At least until we made serious progress in the energy sector.