Treating bullying as everyone's problem reduces incidence in primary schools

Many years ago, one of the popular news shows (Dateline or 20/20, I can never remember which) did a special on bullying.

They showed one elementary school where the entire organization (teachers, students, staff etc) implemented some kind of holistic approach to bullying that actually worked. They even interviewed a group of kids where they said "Oh yeah, Tom used to be the bully and we were all afraid of him but now we're all best friends".

I don't remember the exact plan implemented but it struck me as both simple and common sense with excellent outcomes.

Despite much searching on IMDB, Twitter, Google and even using LLMs, I have yet to find the exact episode. Now that I have kids of my own, I'm even more interested in finding it. Any suggestions from the HN crowd?

Were they using KiVa perhaps? It's the Finnish anti-bullying program which seems to be applied worldwide quite successfully.

https://www.kivaprogram.net/

Fumny you mention that, guess what the article is about.

> we were all afraid of him but now we're all best friends

All without addressing the underlying problem that made people afraid of Tom in the first place?

> with excellent outcomes.

Apparently excellent short term outcomes. The real question is does this actually solve the long term problem and is it possible that the strategies used to create this outcome actually aggravate long term outcomes?

OLWEUS most likely

Kids becoming friends with someone who used to bully them isn't all that uncommon. It can happen especially if the bullied kid fights back and earns the respect of the bully.

Maybe "Bullies to Buddies"? https://www.izzykalman.com/ ""We will never win the war against bullying by trying to convince people to stop being bullies. We need to teach people how not to be victims! (Izzy Kalman, Nationally Certified School Psychologist)"

Also from there: "What does the research show? The most highly revered and intensive anti-bullying programs rarely produce more than a minor reduction in bullying and often lead to an increase. A large-scale study conducted by the University of Texas at Arlington found that kids who attend schools with anti-bullying programs are more likely to be bullied than kids who attend schools without such programs. Why? And how can schools determine what is more likely to be effective? ..."

And: "Bullies to Buddies teaches how to understand the Golden Rule as a scientific, psychological formula and how to apply it in real life. It provides materials and training to students, school staff, mental health professionals, and parents. Because the lessons are simple yet counterintuitive and taught largely via entertaining role-plays, they enable people to quickly understand their mistakes and how to rectify them. Rather than teaching students that they need to rely on others to protect them from each other, Bullies to Buddies teaches them how to solve their social problems on their own.

What students learn:

* The “optical illusion” that causes bullying

* How to use the Golden Rule to stop being bullied without anyone’s help, including dealing with:

* Verbal attacks

* Rumors

* Physical aggression and threats

* Social exclusion

* Cyberbullying

As a result, kids grow in happiness, resilience, independence, and emotional maturity. These techniques will unleash their sense of humor and make them more popular with their peers. And they will get along better with their parents, teachers, and siblings."

To be clear, Izzy Kalman also outlines situations where the approach works (e.g. teasing, name calling, rumors, shoving) and where it doesn't (e.g. serious physical violence). And he also points out that while the approach may greatly reduce issues it may not resolve all issues. There is a certain low-level of social negativity people have to learn to live with (as contrasted with "zero tolerance" policies where people can learn to game the system to use it to bully others).

There is a videos section on the site with a a couple dozen of videos. Example showing in general the distinction between most programs (modify the entire social environment) and what Izzy Kalman suggests (train the person suffering in skills of resilience and social interaction): "The Golden Rule System - Simple Solution to Bullying" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVVAx_kGM7w

Example showing to learn to deal with (mild) physical aggression: "Magic Response for Physical Aggression" - Bullying Prevention for Educators" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRPusaSSqqE

Example of Izzy Kalman applying ideas to recent violent events: https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/resilience-to-bull...

My entire experience of being bullied (there wasn't really any at my school, not sure why) is that one kid made fun of my acne. I just shrugged and then he said "you are cool." I thought it was a strange phenomenon.

I think a lot of bullying is rooted in a form of social awkward way to initiate play. And/or a form of testing the other to see if 1) the other kid is a equal alpha/beta scale in the pecking order or 2) a weakling that will tolerate bullying behavior thus boosting my alpha/beta standing in the pack.

There’s obviously some other complexity but i think this sums up a lot of the most common reasons that almost every kids will give/receive at some point. Some kids are just pure evil and enjoy inflicting pain, that’s out there but less common.

this is true in my experience. There is the stupid psychotic kind of bully, but there is also the misguided kind that thinks this is how boys are supposed to bond. In my case I cried when I was bullied after several times cause i thought it was so uncool and he stopped and we became friends. Not super close or anything. I guess i figured he wasn't stupid or evil.

I became friends with most people that tested my boundaries (I don’t even like calling what I experienced “bullying” it was so minor). But I was also always extremely intolerant of it. Meaning, I fought back or retaliated in equal or worse ways. It wasn’t the best way but it worked. I moved a lot as a kid and there was always a new group I was having to integrate with and so I got used to dealing with all the typically stuff that came with that. I once had a kid messing with me on a school bus, I asked him to stop, tried to avoid sitting near him, but finally after about 3 days of him doing whatever he was doing I smacked him across the nose with the spine of my textbook and there was so much blood. I got detention for a week and some corporal punishment (smacks with a wooden paddle iirc). He never messed with me again and I became Mr. Popularity for standing up to this kid who was I guess a jerk to everyone. It was only second grade and didn’t last because we moved again at the end of the year. I don’t remember if i became friends with that guy, that memory stands out because my reaction was so severe. By middle school, we’d do dumb stuff like smack each other in the back of the head or tripping each other in the halls of school. The kids that didn’t participate probably felt bullied when some one tried to “befriend them”, everyone else became friends. We all would laugh about it and play together at recess, basketball, wallball, etc came out of it.

Now, I’m a dad of a 6 year old son. We’ve been telling him his whole life to be respectful and keep his hands to himself. He has and is truly baffled by kids with aggressive attitudes. He’s been around it occasionally his whole life, having to play nice or talk it out with another kid but while he’s still pretty chill and peaceful it’s now obvious he’s essentially bully bate. He’s too kind and tolerant of other kids being jerks. This past few months we made the switch to telling him that defending himself is OK. It felt weird, like we did everything right but now have to backtrack because of the failure of other parents. Or, and maybe more likely, it’s the case that some kids are just more innately better/worse behaved and we just haven’t properly prepared our kid to deal with it. Idk but I’m totally willing to deal with the fallout of him getting in trouble defending himself versus the fallout of him not defending himself and being a victim with lasting damage to his self confidence/mental health.