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Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

(arxiv.org)
391 points JSeymourATL | 26 comments | 14 Nov 24 14:35 UTC | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
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shmatt ◴[14 Nov 24 14:56 UTC] No.42136701[source]▶
I have to put out a ghost job req and interview every person applying within reason for every green card a direct report is applying for. I have to show there are or aren’t any residents or citizens that can fill the job

The main problem is: even if the interviewee knocks it out of the park, is an amazing engineer, I still am not interested in firing my OPT/h1b team member who can still legally work for 2-3 years. So while I will deny their green card application and not submit it, I also won’t hire the interviewee

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ndiddy ◴[14 Nov 24 15:04 UTC] No.42136810[source]▶
I'm glad our government has introduced the H1B program to help out employers like you who are dealing with a shortage of tech workers (who will work for 2/3 market and will do anything you say because if they get fired they'll be deported).
replies(7): >>42137249 #>>42137397 #>>42137451 #>>42137601 #>>42138017 #>>42138211 #>>42140763 #
bluGill ◴[14 Nov 24 15:49 UTC] No.42137397[source]▶
H1b should be a bid salery to play not first to apply. That is we will allow x of them, when you sponser someone you commit to paying them some salary for the full term - no layoffs (you get fire for cause but that is a legal thing they can take you to court for , and the courts can force you to give back pay if it wasn't a good cause) , you should know your budget can afford them. , someone who really is the best , offer them a million dollars to be sure they get in , just a warm body , if they don't get in who cares.

There are ways to abuse the above, but note they can always quit.

replies(4): >>42137481 #>>42137749 #>>42139315 #>>42140552 #
1. para_parolu ◴[14 Nov 24 15:57 UTC] No.42137481[source]▶
This means small companies may not get good talent that value things besides salary (wfh, perks, fun project) and will have to compete with corporations for people who only cares about money. This may (or may not) impact startups
replies(2): >>42137685 #>>42138025 #
2. mrkstu ◴[14 Nov 24 16:16 UTC] No.42137685[source]▶
Same as ever though, this is tangential to H1B.
3. gigel82 ◴[14 Nov 24 16:45 UTC] No.42138025[source]▶
Stop it, no one "values things besides salary", and you know it.
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4. galangalalgol ◴[14 Nov 24 16:50 UTC] No.42138095[source]▶
I get your point, but if that were completely true, no one would work in the videogame or embedded software sectors. They pay dramatically less, especially early in career.
5. freeone3000 ◴[14 Nov 24 16:53 UTC] No.42138123[source]▶
I value a good manager, a fun team, an actual PTO policy I can use, and cool projects to work with at about $40,000 a year. Salary is valuable but it is not the only valuable thing.
replies(2): >>42140304 #>>42141210 #
6. schmidtleonard ◴[14 Nov 24 17:10 UTC] No.42138355[source]▶
That's only 99% true, but the 1% of exceptions will get an egregiously disproportionate amount of attention and concern.
7. saas_sam ◴[14 Nov 24 17:24 UTC] No.42138581[source]▶
If you people only valued salary you'd all be in sales :)
8. newaccount74 ◴[14 Nov 24 17:28 UTC] No.42138645[source]▶
I hired a developer who just wanted a cushy job and I offered him a cushy job.

I offered 4 day work week, no on-call, no overtime, but paid less than their previous employer (because I couldn't afford it).

I am sure lots of people value things besides salary.

replies(2): >>42138891 #>>42145779 #
9. Dylan16807 ◴[14 Nov 24 17:48 UTC] No.42138891{3}[source]▶
Changing the work hours doesn't technically affect "salary" but it's a change in wages. I think your example mostly reinforces the point, but we should be using the word "wages" to be clearer.
10. marssaxman ◴[14 Nov 24 18:08 UTC] No.42139184[source]▶
Are you serious? I know quite clearly that people do value things besides salary!
replies(1): >>42141231 #
11. Sohcahtoa82 ◴[14 Nov 24 18:29 UTC] No.42139454[source]▶
I mean, that's not entirely true.

Mostly true, yes. A monthly pizza and beer party won't make up for lack of salary, but extra PTO that I can use can.

Like...if I had the choice of a job that offered $200K/year but only 2 weeks PTO, and another offered only $185K but 5 weeks PTO, I'd take the latter.

Honestly I'd love a company that gave 4 weeks PTO with the option to take up to another 4 weeks unpaid.

12. throwaway2037 ◴[14 Nov 24 18:32 UTC] No.42139483[source]▶
Fidessa is pretty famous on Wall Street for paying lower salaries but being much more fun to work for. They have tons of at-work and after-work events (with and without alcohol). There are lots of people who stay at Fidessa for much less money than they could make at another firm.
13. autoexec ◴[14 Nov 24 18:38 UTC] No.42139554[source]▶
I'd argue that most workers value several things over salary. Very few people are trying to maximize their income at the expense of everything else. They tend to limit their job searches to places near their families. They apply to jobs they'd enjoy doing or at least wouldn't mind vs jobs they'd hate but which pay better. They don't apply to jobs that pay well but are also highly dangerous. etc.

Money > everything just isn't how most people see the world.

14. nonameiguess ◴[14 Nov 24 18:50 UTC] No.42139701[source]▶
Maybe software-adjacent people applying to startups, but in general, this obviously can't be true. Relatively low-paying but high-status jobs, like FBI agent, military officer, elected official, judge wouldn't exist, nor low-paying passion work like social worker, wildlife conservation, most non-profits, low-paying jobs that are simply fun like most musicians, pro athletes in unpopular sports. Plenty of capable, talented people who could be making more money choose not to.
15. consteval ◴[14 Nov 24 19:41 UTC] No.42140304{3}[source]▶
Salary is the most valuable thing, however. Because I would happily take a salary of 1 billion dollars with an awful manager and a no-fun team. And, conversely, I would never take a job with the best people on planet earth for a salary of one dollar.
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16. ghaff ◴[14 Nov 24 20:02 UTC] No.42140545{4}[source]▶
Well, of course, you can make up hypotheticals. I used to say that you couldn't pay me enough to work in NYC. But of course I didn't literally mean that I wouldn't take FU money for a couple years to work there (not doing anything criminal etc.). But that wasn't going to realistically happen.
17. jfengel ◴[14 Nov 24 20:05 UTC] No.42140572{4}[source]▶
If you were offered a job with an awful manager and a no-fun team for $250,000, and a job with the best people on the planet for $249,999, which one would you choose?
replies(1): >>42140798 #
18. consteval ◴[14 Nov 24 20:25 UTC] No.42140798{5}[source]▶
Right, naturally the extent matters, but it's still the most important statistic when doing cost analysis.

Also, other statistics are just wage in disguise. Work-life balance refers to working less, which means a higher wage. PTO is also just working less, which is a higher wage. WFH means less driving + lower cost of living, which is an effective higher wage.

19. gigel82 ◴[14 Nov 24 21:05 UTC] No.42141210{3}[source]▶
If you can't live off of $40,000 a year, you are not taking that job. I'm not saying there aren't people already independently wealthy and "working" for fun but those are an infinitesimal exception.
replies(1): >>42141508 #
20. gigel82 ◴[14 Nov 24 21:07 UTC] No.42141231{3}[source]▶
Of course people value things besides salary, but if there was no salary or the salary would not be enough to live off, none of those things matter in any way. So first and foremost (unless you're a billionaire's son) is salary, for everyone.
replies(1): >>42148333 #
21. rcxdude ◴[14 Nov 24 21:39 UTC] No.42141508{4}[source]▶
I think they mean that they will take a job with those benefits for 40k less than a job without. I assume generally they are looking at positions that pay substantially more than that.
22. ◴[15 Nov 24 02:49 UTC] No.42143552[source]▶
23. GreenWatermelon ◴[15 Nov 24 11:04 UTC] No.42145779{3}[source]▶
You effectively offered them a higher dollar/hour rate. And depending on how much they value their free time, that's more $$ in their figurative bank.
replies(1): >>42147552 #
24. newaccount74 ◴[15 Nov 24 15:05 UTC] No.42147552{4}[source]▶
I don't think I even paid them more per hour. The problem was that all the other companies only want to hire full time programmers, so I was able to hire them by offering a job with fewer hours.

Also, they complained that their previous job was super stressful because the sales people kept making promises to customers that were really hard to keep ("of course we'll implement this in two weeks") and so they were constantly scrambling to meet impossible deadlines.

25. marssaxman ◴[15 Nov 24 16:23 UTC] No.42148333{4}[source]▶
Perhaps so, but in our highly-compensated industry, that is a very low bar! Your point may be technically correct, after you have sliced it so finely, but it is no longer very interesting.
26. para_parolu ◴[19 Nov 24 06:18 UTC] No.42180505[source]▶
Not sure if it meant to be joke but I do value things besides salary. I literally accepted offer with 40% drop recently. Salary is important and it doesn’t make sense to work for free. But after some threshold increase is salary doesn’t change life drastically. But not spending 40 hours doing boring stuff changes life a lot.