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    Why is it so hard to find a job now? Enter Ghost Jobs

    (arxiv.org)
    391 points JSeymourATL | 11 comments | 14 Nov 24 14:35 UTC | HN request time: 0.626s | source | bottom
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    shmatt ◴[14 Nov 24 14:56 UTC] No.42136701[source]▶
    I have to put out a ghost job req and interview every person applying within reason for every green card a direct report is applying for. I have to show there are or aren’t any residents or citizens that can fill the job

    The main problem is: even if the interviewee knocks it out of the park, is an amazing engineer, I still am not interested in firing my OPT/h1b team member who can still legally work for 2-3 years. So while I will deny their green card application and not submit it, I also won’t hire the interviewee

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    1. falseprofit ◴[14 Nov 24 15:02 UTC] No.42136774[source]▶
    Maybe if someone is “amazing” you should get them a green card.
    replies(3): >>42136811 #>>42137287 #>>42137316 #
    2. shmatt ◴[14 Nov 24 15:04 UTC] No.42136811[source]▶
    In this example the amazing engineer is a citizen or permanent resident already

    If my superiors would give me extra unexpected budget I’d be happy to. But if I find a citizen that is just as good as my opt employee, my only path forward is to either fire the opt or let them continue on the team but not submit their GC application (because I have to swear I couldn’t find a citizen that is just as good)

    replies(2): >>42136896 #>>42137002 #
    3. flatline ◴[14 Nov 24 15:10 UTC] No.42136896[source]▶
    …because if you grant them the green card they will up and get a new job? The incentives here are so screwed up for everyone, it effectively codifies a caste system of immigrant workers.
    replies(3): >>42137003 #>>42137022 #>>42137129 #
    4. ◴[14 Nov 24 15:18 UTC] No.42137002[source]▶
    5. umanwizard ◴[14 Nov 24 15:18 UTC] No.42137003{3}[source]▶
    No, you're missing the point.

    To extend the visa they have to swear they couldn't find a citizen to do this job, and aren't willing to lie.

    replies(1): >>42137083 #
    6. lazide ◴[14 Nov 24 15:20 UTC] No.42137022{3}[source]▶
    Caste systems are extremely convenient.
    7. pickledish ◴[14 Nov 24 15:24 UTC] No.42137083{4}[source]▶
    (this clarified the situation for me, thank you)
    8. alwa ◴[14 Nov 24 15:29 UTC] No.42137129{3}[source]▶
    I took the implication to be that GP already had a good employee who was hired legitimately under the terms of the H1B, but that, to convert to a green card, you have to see whether a US person could do the job. So you have to put out for interviews to see, but you don’t have to act on that information.

    If the interview process yields a US person equally qualified, GP can’t (and doesn’t) certify the guest worker’s green card application. But that doesn’t mean they have to fire them and send them home early: they can let the guest worker work out their contract if they want to (which they probably do, it probably pays well compared to other options). And an experienced, already-trained, good employee is probably more valuable to the business than an immediate, unplanned new hire anyway.

    So yes, certainly screwed up incentives—but I don’t see how it would be better to require guest workers to put their jobs in immediate jeopardy just to apply for permanent residency.

    replies(1): >>42138254 #
    9. UncleMeat ◴[14 Nov 24 15:41 UTC] No.42137287[source]▶
    Companies can't just do this.

    It'd be fabulous if this was an option, but green card applications have all sorts of caps and aren't even just "wait in a line for N years." They are random every year and every year you fail to get approved you get no closer to being approved.

    The effect is that you can have excellent engineers who've been in the US for a decade+ who are still in this liminal space where they don't have legal permanent residency.

    10. DiggyJohnson ◴[14 Nov 24 15:43 UTC] No.42137316[source]▶
    should vs. could. vs. ought. vs. can

    Strikes again

    11. em-bee ◴[14 Nov 24 17:03 UTC] No.42138254{4}[source]▶
    exactly that. you actually want/need a few years of warning if your greencard is going to be accepted or not. having to put out a ghost job in order to find out if the greencard is going to be accepted is really the problem (for the ghost candidate)