←back to thread

1796 points koolba | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0.985s | source
Show context
drawkward ◴[] No.42063854[source]
It's the economy, stupid:

-Inflation is not prices; it is the rate of change in prices. Low inflation doesn't imply low prices. -Aggregate statistics don't necessarily explain individual outcomes.

The Dems failed on this count massively, and have, for maybe the last 40 years, which is about the amount of time it took for my state to go from national bellwether (As goes Ohio, so goes the nation) to a reliably red state. This cost one of the most pro-union Senators (Sherrod Brown) his job.

replies(37): >>42063943 #>>42064224 #>>42064690 #>>42066206 #>>42066419 #>>42066536 #>>42066822 #>>42066913 #>>42067069 #>>42067564 #>>42067838 #>>42067963 #>>42068126 #>>42068182 #>>42068271 #>>42068402 #>>42068430 #>>42068606 #>>42068733 #>>42069182 #>>42069400 #>>42069554 #>>42069652 #>>42070319 #>>42070599 #>>42070710 #>>42070781 #>>42070796 #>>42071522 #>>42071614 #>>42072387 #>>42072420 #>>42073867 #>>42075648 #>>42079964 #>>42080368 #>>42088729 #
UncleOxidant ◴[] No.42066822[source]
> The Dems failed on this count massively

What was their failure here? The failure to explain to the economically illiterate that while inflation is now about where it was prior to covid that prices won't be going down (unless there's some sort of major recession leading to deflation)?

replies(19): >>42066848 #>>42066861 #>>42066959 #>>42066984 #>>42067112 #>>42067177 #>>42067270 #>>42067493 #>>42067618 #>>42067754 #>>42067895 #>>42068013 #>>42068042 #>>42068079 #>>42068425 #>>42069294 #>>42069341 #>>42069886 #>>42087968 #
ComplexSystems ◴[] No.42067493[source]
The failure is in this very common exchange

Average voter: I can't afford groceries at the store. Inflation sucks.

Response: Actually, here is the correct definition of "inflation." As you can see from the correct definition, inflation rates are now good! Hopefully this helps you understand why things will never get better.

What the average voter hears: I can't afford groceries. Your solution to this problem is to reframe the current situation as "good." I still can't afford groceries.

replies(13): >>42067645 #>>42067677 #>>42067909 #>>42068209 #>>42068893 #>>42069020 #>>42069063 #>>42069188 #>>42069480 #>>42069833 #>>42069964 #>>42070434 #>>42072291 #
dekhn ◴[] No.42072291[source]
I always interpret these things in the context which sent Leona Helmsley to jail: "only little people pay taxes".

People heard her say that and were outraged. What's funny is that when you think about it, it actually does make sense although it's pejorative.

Rich people don't pay taxes. They invest their money, which is incentivized by the government in the form of lower/different taxation. Similarly they use experienced lawyers who understand the tax code to structure their wealth in ways that allow them to pay lower taxes. And the term little people, while pejorative, really represents the power differential between people like her husband and the "Average Joe". Trump is not little people, but he's somehow managed to express things in ways that "little" people (using Leona's terminology, not my own) like.

Much of politics is about not directly saying the truth, whether it be ugly, undesired, or complicated. Instead it's about understanding what drives voters (higher out of pocket prices uncoupled from concomitant wage increases) and how to say the thing they want to hear, while also enacting policies that achieve your political goals.

replies(1): >>42074803 #
valval ◴[] No.42074803[source]
Rich people pay way more taxes than poor people. The top income earners pay for everything in this country and all the other countries.
replies(2): >>42076651 #>>42077976 #
bdavisx ◴[] No.42076651[source]
>Rich people pay way more taxes than poor people.

Not as a percentage of their income, especially when all "taxes" (anything the government charges for) are taken into account.

replies(1): >>42078509 #
valval ◴[] No.42078509[source]
I can guarantee you without any shadow of a doubt that rich people pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than poor people because of progressive taxation in the US.
replies(2): >>42079852 #>>42085841 #
1. jbn ◴[] No.42085841[source]
see https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/18/who-pays-...

income tax is progressive but tends to become regressive at the very top when individuals have control over what counts as "realized income". The ultra wealthy in fact don't pay so much tax (and certainly not their "fair" share).

What you say is true absent any tax optimization, alas there is such a thing, especially at the top. Also, see works of Zucman and Saez.

replies(1): >>42090278 #
2. valval ◴[] No.42090278[source]
What I said is self-evident to anyone above the age of 8, but thank you for providing a supporting graphic.

Oh and yeah it’s true 100% of the time, everywhere in the US. Let me state it again if you’re confused; rich people pay a higher income tax percentage than poor people.