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41 points hhs | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0.213s | source
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alsetmusic ◴[] No.42070992[source]
I worked at a liquor store when I was 21 and lived in a midwestern bible-belt state. We had flyers at the counter educating customers to vote against a raise of sin-taxes (alcohol, tobacco, possibly adult material, I don't recall) to offset a budget deficit (specifically upkeep of roads and highways).

It's not right for my vices to pay for your infrastructure. Tax tobacco to fund cancer research. Tax alcohol to advance treatment of liver disease. Tax porn to fund, I dunno, therapy for people who can't view it in moderation.

On a similar note, I do NOT have a problem with paying for schools even though I don't have kids. It raises property values and that's a benefit to me and everyone in the district. Plus, educating young people benefits society as a whole. I'm not some "don't tax me" guy because taxes are good. They just should be limited and targeted and not levied unfairly against those with bad habits for the benefit / relief of all.

That said, I apologize for quitting drinking. Research into treating cirrhosis of the liver will have to take a moderate hit and that's my fault. /s but only sorta

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amanaplanacanal ◴[] No.42071023[source]
Fuel taxes should be raised to pay for road infrastructure. Align the incentives so that people can make good decisions about whether to drive or not. And shippers can make better decisions about whether to ship via rail, ship, or truck.
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mperham ◴[] No.42071175[source]
EVs are breaking this funding model.

I'd suggest curbside parking should be charged everywhere. Free omnipresent parking is what has hollowed out American cities. Car storage is an awful use of public space.

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gorkish ◴[] No.42071251[source]
You are woefully incorrect. in most places EV's road taxes are massively disproportionate to the amount of road tax an ICE vehicle would pay.

Here in Texas, I would ordinarily pay about $30/year in road taxes on gasoline driving a 30mpg vehicle 12,000/mi anually.

But I have an EV instead so instead I pay:

$500 in surcharge for the first year of registration and $200 surcharge for every year thereafter.

Oh whoops I misspoke; I actually have 3 EVs so despite being one person, I pay approximately 25x more road tax than the average driver here.

I'm not necessarily complaining about the /amount/ of tax but the simple fact that it is both disproportionately applied and far too low overall. The state should charge based on actual mileage, but since they just eliminated state inspections, good luck with that. Second best alternative is to make it a flat surcharge for all.

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nkurz ◴[] No.42075247[source]
It's a good argument, but is your math right?

Texas looks to have a state tax of 20 cents a gallon, plus a federal tax of 18 cents a gallon. 12000 miles at 30 mpg is 400 gallons. The state portion is thus $80/year, and the combined is $152. Which leaves your argument mostly intact, but off by ~2.5x or ~5x depending on how you count. Or did I mess up the math myself?

Also, it appears the average driven per vehicle per year in Texas is more like 16000 miles (https://www.trustedchoice.com/insurance-articles/wheels-wing...). This would make the $200/year surcharge close to equivalent for the total missing gas taxes (state and federal) for a vehicle that is likely heavier than average.

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1. gorkish ◴[] No.42080034[source]
Yeah sorry about that I was ballparking it pretty good; your numbers are truer.

But if we are going to take it into this territory, we do need to break down those taxes a little bit to make a proper comparison. On the state tax side, 75% of the fee goes to the highway fund, so @400gal the actual road tax portion is $60. The remainder goes to education per the Texas constitution, but the EV surcharge does not fund education, so I do not feel it is fair to include this portion in the comparison.

The federal fuel tax applies to fuel used for electricity generation as well, and is passed to the consumer as a surcharge. I'd argue that EVs are already paying the same federal fuel tax when they are getting their electricity from taxable fuel sources. Even so, it's not the state's job to collect it, and Texas also doesn't pay any of the EV surcharges to the federal government. Because of this, I'd argue that the federal fuel tax is completely out of scope. If the federal government decides this is unbalanced and needs to be corrected, they can change their own tax code.

Finally, don't forget that the first year surcharge is $500. I amortized the total registration fees over 5 years as 500+200x4 = $260/yr.

So at 16k miles @30mpg = 400gal * 0.15/gal = $60 in state road taxes for an ICE car vs $260 for an EV, or stated another way the EV pays the equivalent road tax of driving an ICE car 56,000 miles per year.