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Steve Ballmer was an underrated CEO

(danluu.com)
371 points greggyb | 26 comments | 28 Oct 24 21:48 UTC | HN request time: 0.882s | source | bottom
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not_a_bot_4sho ◴[29 Oct 24 01:19 UTC] No.41978402[source]▶
Funny story. I used to see Steve almost every weekday for a couple of years.

I can't speak to his business skills, but I can attest that he never once offered a tip for his daily black iced tea. We'd even have it ready for him before he showed up so he never had to wait! He would pay with cash, and I'd hand him his change and drink, and that was that.

It's funny to me now: one of the richest men in the world and he never once offered a tip.

Frugality aside, he was always very polite and warm so I can't be mad. Makes for a good ice breaker story.

Edit: holy moly, this is a sensitive subject. Please remember this was from a time before tipflation. Tipping meant you left your change behind once in a while only if you felt the desire to show appreciation. It wasn't an obligation. Yes, I still do think it's a funny story. Roast me for being entitled lol

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1. unixhero ◴[29 Oct 24 02:02 UTC] No.41978639[source]▶
Tipping for a convenience item at the till really really sucks. Am I the only one sane on this? Best regards Norway
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2. skyyler ◴[29 Oct 24 02:11 UTC] No.41978684[source]▶
It does suck.

But in this culture that Steve exists within, those positions are paid mostly by tips. He certainly could afford to help out the people that prepared his iced tea ritual for him in a timely manner, but he did not.

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3. itake ◴[29 Oct 24 02:34 UTC] No.41978803[source]▶
> But in this culture that Steve exists within, those positions are paid mostly by tips.

False. Presumably this was in WA, employers have to pay full wages. there is no carve out "tipped" wage (most) of the rest of the USA has. Currently, min wage in Redmond (King County) is $20.29/hr.

Many businesses in King County do not allow tipping.

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4. csomar ◴[29 Oct 24 02:35 UTC] No.41978808[source]▶
No you are not. The tipping culture in the US is insane (along with the idea that employers want their stuff to be paid via tips). Good for Ballmer for sticking to his values.
5. thatfrenchguy ◴[29 Oct 24 02:37 UTC] No.41978817{3}[source]▶
Minimum wage != Prevailing wage in that occupation
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6. skyyler ◴[29 Oct 24 02:39 UTC] No.41978830{4}[source]▶
>Currently, min wage in Redmond (King County) is $20.29/hr.

I'd love to know if that is a livable wage in King County.

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7. fshbbdssbbgdd ◴[29 Oct 24 02:53 UTC] No.41978902{3}[source]▶
If you make more than 1x your wage in tips, then you are mostly paid in tips - regardless of whether your state has a tipped minimum wage law.
8. kevin_thibedeau ◴[29 Oct 24 03:23 UTC] No.41979068{3}[source]▶
Even in states with a lower tip worker's minimum wage, they are still guaranteed to make the standard minimum wage if the tips don't make up the difference.

Serving up food you didn't even cook isn't an intensely difficult or skilled job. Nobody should expect a 20% cut for doing that. It is not a customers responsibility to ensure unskilled service workers are rolling in largesse. Just making minimum wage is fair for that kind of work provided the minimum is livable.

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9. itake ◴[29 Oct 24 03:34 UTC] No.41979118{5}[source]▶
My gripe with "living wage" is the term (to me) is too subjective.

MIT's living wage [0] seems to include car ownership (despite King county having a decent public transit system and I know several people that don't have cars working in tech). My first place in a great part of town was $1,400/mo in a roomshare. The podments are as low as $750/mo, but MIT says you need at least $2k/mo.

[0] - https://livingwage.mit.edu/counties/53033

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10. casey2 ◴[29 Oct 24 04:05 UTC] No.41979272{4}[source]▶
>Serving up food you didn't even cook isn't an intensely difficult or skilled job.

Then it should be easy to automate, but the best I've seen is a conveyor belt or a box on top of a roomba. In reality it's a very skilled job, it's just that most everyone is capable of doing it. And "fair" is any wage were you can live and increase the quality of your life over time as much as your work has increased the quality of others.

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11. EasyMark ◴[29 Oct 24 04:09 UTC] No.41979291[source]▶
Baristas in Norway get paid far more than here in the USA except in the fanciest of coffee shops. Tip culture is simply a part of the restaurant scene here, while I don’t agree with it, I don’t see hurting the baristas/waitstaff as an option either. I may not give exorbitant tips, but I give a reasonable 10-15%
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12. locusofself ◴[29 Oct 24 05:03 UTC] No.41979546{3}[source]▶
do you know how expensive it is to live in Redmond? Very expensive
13. locusofself ◴[29 Oct 24 05:04 UTC] No.41979551{5}[source]▶
I live in Redmond. A decent house is 1.2 million dollars here.
14. pennybanks ◴[29 Oct 24 05:11 UTC] No.41979582[source]▶
this isnt expected. not for most ppl at least. you can if you want but its nothing like sitting down getting served or delivery driver, etc.
15. pennybanks ◴[29 Oct 24 05:20 UTC] No.41979621{5}[source]▶
lol forreal? its not skilled work i dont know what to say. your definition everything is skilled but thats not how people use it in this context and it becomes a useless term. also have you seen a vending machine? its already automated.. its literally what this person is doing: taking order, giving correct drink. yes they have ones that pour it and everything. even give the correct change.

and i dont even know where to start of your ideology of fair either. i feel like its flexible enough to use it however fits your idea why denying any other

16. ethbr1 ◴[29 Oct 24 06:50 UTC] No.41980115{3}[source]▶
As recently as 10 years ago in 2014, at the tail end of Ballmer's CEO tenure, Washington state minimum wage was still ~$8.60.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_S...

17. thowawatp302 ◴[29 Oct 24 07:02 UTC] No.41980169{4}[source]▶
> Serving up food you didn't even cook isn't an intensely difficult or skilled job.

So how long did you spend doing it, to be able to asser that?

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18. nicholasbraker ◴[29 Oct 24 07:20 UTC] No.41980296[source]▶
Hi Norway, The Netherlands here. I feel you ;-)
19. kortilla ◴[29 Oct 24 07:44 UTC] No.41980461{5}[source]▶
You can tell based on the hiring criteria. There aren’t any
20. oefnak ◴[29 Oct 24 08:33 UTC] No.41980918[source]▶
You're keeping the system in place by contributing to it. I don't see how people don't understand that. You should act how you want everyone to act.
21. ywvcbk ◴[29 Oct 24 08:56 UTC] No.41981048[source]▶
> Baristas in Norway get paid far more than here

Are they? Google claims the average is about NOK 200 per hours? That’s barely above the tipped minimum wage in Washington or California. So it would be considerably less with tips?

22. ◴[29 Oct 24 09:04 UTC] No.41981098{4}[source]▶
23. fastasucan ◴[29 Oct 24 09:19 UTC] No.41981285[source]▶
I am also Norwegian and I also dislike tipping culture, but when they have your daily ice tea ready for you before you come in I would say it would be strange to not say "ah, just keep the change" now and then to show that you appreciate (and essentially pay for) the extra service.
24. infecto ◴[29 Oct 24 12:05 UTC] No.41983018[source]▶
Should not matter how rich the person is. Tipping at the register is a shame.
25. itake ◴[29 Oct 24 13:57 UTC] No.41983877{5}[source]▶
Can you share a couple examples of non-skilled labor?
26. skyyler ◴[30 Oct 24 16:48 UTC] No.41997313{6}[source]▶
>My gripe with "living wage" is the term (to me) is too subjective.

Yes, what is considered "livable" varies wildly from person to person.