Today is Ubuntu's 20th Anniversary

Seems like everyone loves to hate Ubuntu lately. From the Amazon search icon years ago, to Snaps, Mir, "pro" updates (which I don't get the backlash about..).

But man, I started using this distro 18 years ago? And I still use it today. I can tell you, it's gotten more usable, more stable, and easier to install, without (imo) sacrificing any of what we love about Linux systems. If you hate snaps you can just remove them.

It's an OS I can easily recommend to beginners who want to dip their toes in the Linux world. They can install it without any help.

And I get that so much is a testament to the software Ubuntu uses getting better. But it brings it all together in such a great way.

I used Arch Linux for a few years. But I didn't really like having to check message boards for any breaking changes before updating lest my system become unusable... As a busy professional and dad, I don't see myself switching off of Ubuntu anytime soon.

> If you hate snaps you can just remove them.

The last time I tried Ubuntu it would automatically install the snap version if I tried to `apt install` a package. Is this behavior easy to disable? Do they even ship apt packages of stuff they use snap for?

btw what happened to the fully snap-based atomic version aka Ubuntu Core Desktop? Last news was from February that it got delayed but no news ever since

Ubuntu was ahead of its time in usability but things like "They can install it without any help" aren't particularly unique or compelling claims to make 20 years later. In some ways it has went backwards in usability. As an example, you mention snaps: say a user comes to find they don't like dealing with sandboxed apps being delivered via a separate update and package system... can they really "just remove them?". E.g. try removing snapd and Firefox then installing Firefox... it's no longer in the repositories and you're now in the realm of adding custom PPAs just to have a contiguous package system for default apps. By this point users have said "fuck it" and moved on.

If you've already got something going there's probably not enough reason to bother switching things up. If you're doing it as a new user... why not compare to Debian or another Debian-based rather than something radically different in type and focus as Arch?

apt "pinning" is the process you're looking for. This allows you to prevent reinstallation of snapd and prefer other sources for packages, e.g. Firefox from Mozilla's PPA.

> If you hate snaps you can just remove them.

lol.

ubuntu makes it really hard for you to regain control of their system.

https://askubuntu.com/questions/1035915/how-to-remove-snap-f...

https://askubuntu.com/questions/1322292/how-do-i-turn-off-au...

https://askubuntu.com/questions/676374/how-to-disable-welcom...

https://askubuntu.com/questions/1434512/how-to-get-rid-of-ub...

So Ubuntu doesn't provide apt packages so if I want to use apt I have to muck around with PPAs? I don't want to have to add a PPA for every software I install. This is why Debian is better for my use case -- all I have to do is apt install and boom I have the Debian package installed. All this works out of the box on a Debian installation.

If you don't like Snap, use a distro that doesn't use Snap. If you pick a Snap distro it's just making your life harder for the sake of being difficult.

This applies to many things in Linux world in addition to Snap:

- systemd/sysvinit

- Wayland/X

- apt/rpm

- Musl/glibc

Ubuntu fully earned a lot of that hate, but I can't deny that it's done a lot of good. It's had a lot of influence on getting people into linux and on other distros. I've still got some early Ubuntu CDs sitting around somewhere.

Yes, but when you just update as you've done many times and then several of the main apps don't work, then it's not a case of 'just pick a non-snap distro' as you already did that. Canonical have been aggressive in changes to snap only, reversing changes that would normally prevent their install. Now they've gone with 'pro', again using the installation system against their users.

When you've used the same distro (Kubuntu for me) for many years, the forced choosing of a different distro with the need to migrate, ... it's like you're back with Microsoft again.

I'm still unpicking the situation because moving ones family to a new OS is hard work (for me).

nope, for major things like Firefox, it's either snaps or third-party repos.

Ubuntu was never a non-Snap distro. It was always a distribution provided by Canonical wherein they make decisions for you based on their own criteria. Snap became one of those decisions. I can't help but think of "Open Source is Not About You" by Rich Hickey.

If Canonical is, as you say, using Ubuntu _against_ users (and not, in what is much more likely, simply making a decision that you disagree with) why would you want to continue using it? They have root on all your systems via apt.

Personally, I can't wait to try the all-Snap flavor whenever it's ready. I'm curious if it will work for my usage (gaming in particular).

> If you hate snaps you can just remove them.

You kinda can't, and that's the point people are angry about. I never personally cared one way or the other about snaps. But it is not at all acceptable that Ubuntu will sometimes install a snap when I explicitly use apt to install it. That was the moment I decided I'm not gonna use Ubuntu any more: they started to override my decisions about what to install on my computer, and that isn't ok.

Sorry, but this is not true. It's claimed you can use pinning, but at least on my installation, it didn't work no matter what documentation I followed. There was literally no way to stop it from silently switching to the Firefox snap. Well, installing Linux Mint fixed it, but that's not really the same thing.

> "pro" updates (which I don't get the backlash about.)

Waving a security update in my face on the premise that I'll pay them more is rather unacceptable. That said, I wish Ubuntu all the best... in the meantime, I'm considering switching to debian for my cloud stuff, hopefully Trixie comes out in decent shape next year...

I'm overall very positive on Ubuntu, but snaps was a big misstep in my opinion. When snaps were rolled out, lots of features were no longer working in apps packaged as snaps, or it was at least confusing to users (like file picker suddenly defaulting to some isolated path). For an operating system that always had a big focus on good user experience, this was really mismanaged and prematurely rolled out. And then they decided to force that bad UX on people by pointing apt packages to snaps suddenly, taking away the users choice to not use snap.

The Amazon search lens was also a mistake, but at least it was easy for "regular" users to disable it. About Mir: so long as everything works, regular users wouldn't even notice, which is fine. I don't like the fragmentation in the Linux landscape, but oh well.