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Is Matt Mullenweg defending WordPress or sabotaging it?

(torment-nexus.mathewingram.com)
154 points davidandgoliath | 10 comments | 17 Oct 24 18:53 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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runjake ◴[17 Oct 24 20:28 UTC] No.41873436[source]▶
One important people to keep in mind as they read this post, the linked Google Doc, and tweets from the past day where a bunch of people are receiving unsolicited DMs[1] from Automattic with grammar that matches Matt's:

- Matt, under various guises, is shifting blame to different entities that are effectively himself.

- Automattic is Matt. Matt is the CEO of Automattic.

- The WordPress Foundation is, effectively, Matt.

- The problem is Matt. Maybe he's right about WP Engine, but the way he has and continues to handle everything has been disastrous.

1. https://x.com/GergelyOrosz/status/1846448485979107824

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zeruch ◴[17 Oct 24 20:48 UTC] No.41873619[source]▶
"Maybe he's right about WP Engine, but the way he has and continues to handle everything has been disastrous."

This is the best single line distillation of the current lunacy. I mean with every passing day, it all becomes more and more unhinged, and I see no good outcome in the long term. The overall damage to the ecosystem I think begins it's death spiral now.

It's a boon for competitors I suppose, but that's about it.

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1. mjburgess ◴[17 Oct 24 21:16 UTC] No.41873879[source]▶
Well, he's not right about WP Engine.

Wordpress is an open source project. If he's "right" about WP Engine, then he's "right" about basically every user of every open source project, and there ceases to be any such thing. OS is take-it-or-leave-it, if he wants contributions back, put it in the licence and also offer support.

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2. Dalewyn ◴[17 Oct 24 21:51 UTC] No.41874182[source]▶
Way too many progressive people proclaim the virtues of free and open and then <pikachu_face.gif> when others take them for their word.

If you want compensation of any kind you must stipulate them before the fact.

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3. pessimizer ◴[17 Oct 24 21:59 UTC] No.41874251[source]▶
He's right about every user of every open source project. The license gives you code, it doesn't give you trademarks, infrastructure support or moral support.

I am amused to see the usual HN vibe both complaining that commercial entities crowding out creators with their own software is violating the "spirit of open source," and insisting that FOSS maintainers don't owe you anything morph into commercial entities don't owe the FOSS maintainers of the software users anything, and are owed trademarks and access to infrastructure.

WP Engine is a hedge fund spinning money out of FOSS. It's fine, it makes more choices available for people. But the idea that Automattic has to acknowledge them, and that acknowledgement cannot be hostile, that's not in the license.

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4. didgetmaster ◴[17 Oct 24 22:34 UTC] No.41874494[source]▶
I am confused. Is WordPress trying to change the open source license to a more restrictive one? Suddenly trying to enforce some terms of the existing license that they never did in the past? Or is it an old fashioned legal dispute where each party says the terms of the contract mean something different?
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5. jeltz ◴[17 Oct 24 23:02 UTC] No.41874683[source]▶
But is Matt progressive in any sense of the word?
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6. mardifoufs ◴[17 Oct 24 23:46 UTC] No.41874981[source]▶
Well if we are just going by what's "allowed" legally and going by the license... automattic also hasn't done anything that's either illegal or a breach of the license. So going by that logic, they haven't done anything wrong either.
7. bigiain ◴[18 Oct 24 00:14 UTC] No.41875146{3}[source]▶
Perhaps in the "progressive cognitive dysfunction" sense...
8. philistine ◴[18 Oct 24 01:13 UTC] No.41875499[source]▶
If that guy was a progressive, he'd give 70% of his income straight to the government.
9. gitaarik ◴[18 Oct 24 03:33 UTC] No.41876124[source]▶
What is he right about exactly?

And is Automattic providing trademark, infrastructure and moral support to WP Engine? As far as I understand WP Engine is just a WordPress plugin.

10. mjburgess ◴[18 Oct 24 07:43 UTC] No.41877170[source]▶
He's (pretending) to operate under an alternative history where wordpress requires contributions to its ecosystem proportionate to your revenue, and forbids any use of its trademarks or any related terms.

He's actually engaged in rich-vs-rich corp warfare and playing the open source community like puppets on a string.