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proee ◴[] No.41839783[source]
Cost of the Europa Clipper program is around $4-5 billion. Can anyone in the industry shed some light on why these programs are so expensive?
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hydrogen7800 ◴[] No.41839865[source]
I worked on one component of the spacecraft which was a derivative of something we've built may times before. However, the test program was entirely unique to Europa Clipper, and most of the cost was in this bespoke testing. The use of a "heritage" component served mostly to lower risk; it did not save much cost overall.
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mandevil ◴[] No.41840104[source]
And can introduce unusual failure cases for these bespoke missions. Mars Observer was lost in flight to Mars three decades ago, probably because of the inappropriate reuse of a satellite rocket engine. (1) The space environment out around Jupiter is really quite different from the environment that the JWST is facing around E-S L2 or what the Parker Solar Probe is facing right near the Sun. Even if the component is spec'd to handle the environment, you need to have actual educated humans (read: expensive labor) determine what those conditions will be, and then verify that the part will meet it, and that's where the money goes- to pay all of those humans.

If you built even 15 Europa Clippers the cost per-item would come down enormously (because all of those people's work could be re-used), but since the 1970's NASA has not had the budget for multiple probes per missions. So every mission is bespoke, and has to be done again completely from scratch.

1: The engine was normally used for circularizing the orbit of a geosynch comm satellite, so within a few hours of flight. For doing a Mars Insertion burn it needed to sit fueled for months in outer space, which was not appropriately tested, and probably the fuel tank exploded in flight because of that.

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dom96 ◴[] No.41841102[source]
> So every mission is bespoke, and has to be done again completely from scratch.

Is there room here for making things more reusable? For example, instead of creating one big satellite with tens of instruments, how about they create 10 satellites with one instrument each? or would that still be too bespoke to lower the cost per item?

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philistine ◴[] No.41841668[source]
While we now live in an era of abundant rocket launches, it used to cost far more to launch with very few launches per year.

The whole strategies of exploration haven’t shifted yet to this new paradigm. Hopefully NASA starts making smaller probes and launching them far more often.

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mandevil ◴[] No.41842255[source]
Europa Clipper is literally the largest thing ever launched to the outer planets (so big that Falcon Heavy can't be reused for this mission, they have to throw it all away in order to get every last jot of performance out of the rocket- so this is not an "abundant rocket launches" situation- this is a fully expendable rocket just like an Atlas V). And the size is not for fun, but because going close to Europa (the entire point of the mission) means going through the second strongest set of EM and radiation belts in our solar system. Even with this size- meaning it can have a lot more shielding than normal- the probe can only survive a few months of the radiation from Jupiter's van Allen belts. The plan is to break that few months of exposure up over about four years of calendar time, by having it do highly elliptical orbits so it stores a lot of data during a close flyby of Europa and then transmits that all back to Earth while it is far outside of Jupiter's radiation storm, then it can head back down and collect more data. And that lengthy transmission time is because it is sending information from so far away- and has so little juice that the effective bandwidth is tiny.

It is possible for a swarm of small satellites to fill niches in space exploration. Closely studying Europa isn't really one of them with today's technology.

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1. cruffle_duffle ◴[] No.41844139[source]
But if launches are cheap, why not build it while in our orbit and then send it? To me that is one of the things “cheap launches” provide… send up five smaller rockets into our orbit and assemble the beast up there.

Easier said than done, of course.

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2. mandevil ◴[] No.41844434[source]
Right now, I think only three things have been assembled from multiple launches like you are proposing: Mir, ISS, and Tiangong. All of which were super expensive and the result of years of careful design work. Definitely not the way to make something cheap!

There was some talk about using ISS as a base for on-orbit assembly but the orbit (half-way between best orbit from KSC and Baikonur) isn't great for that and it turns out that constant docking and un-docking ruins scientific experiments requiring microgravity, so ISS really isn't a great base for assembly. Ideally, if you want to start on orbit assembly you'd have another station in the right orbit for KSC which isn't doing any microgravity research, but now we're talking about massive up front investment to save money on research satellites, is NASA ever going to get the scale of research budget for that savings to be worth it?

If something like Space Based Solar Power ever become a thing then such an on orbit assembly station would make sense, but the case for assembly for science missions really only closes if you have the station already for something else.

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3. Asraelite ◴[] No.41857182[source]
> only three things have been assembled from multiple launches like you are proposing: Mir, ISS, and Tiangong

I would also count the Apollo missions. They launched on a single rocket, but the docking between the CSM and Lunar Module was for all intents and purposes equally difficult to assembly on orbit.

There are multiple commercial companies planning to assemble stations over the next few years. This in addition to the on-orbit refueling that SpaceX will be doing should hopefully enable a new generation of larger, assembled interplanetary probes.

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4. mandevil ◴[] No.41859430{3}[source]
I was using multiple here to mean 3 or more launches, because otherwise the Gemini missions that docked to a separately launched Agena-D booster (G8, G10, G11, G12) would all qualify: GX and GXI even restarted the ATV's engine to set new altitude records (which I think still holds today- if you ignore the 21 men who went to the moon on a Apollo capsule from 1968-1972).

But that is closer to what I meant, because they had to worry about separate launches that might fail (GVI, GIX) and find and dock with something you need to use orbital mechanics to approach (basically anything under 30m distance you can just eyeball and fly, but anything over that distance requires the full set of orbital calculations).