←back to thread

517 points xbar | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
Show context
locallost ◴[] No.39148816[source]
My views on the situation aside, the clearest I saw anyone communicate the issues from a global angle was the former French prime minister Dominique de Villepin

Translated here: https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1718201487132885246

Viewed from the angle of the West, I think the message it needs to avoid isolating itself from the world is very unusual for Western media and important.

Quote:

"Westerners must open their eyes to the extent of the historical drama unfolding before us to find the right answers."

And

"This Palestinian question will not fade. And so we must address it and find an answer. This is where we need courage. The use of force is a dead end. The moral condemnation of what Hamas did - and there's no "but" in my words regarding the moral condemnation of this horror - must not prevent us from moving forward politically and diplomatically in an enlightened manner. The law of retaliation is a never-ending cycle."

replies(6): >>39148909 #>>39148934 #>>39148966 #>>39149209 #>>39150381 #>>39151344 #
pgeorgi ◴[] No.39148909[source]
All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then?

Spend tons of money on iron dome to shoot down the rockets and hope that Hamas won't manage to conduct another massacre, even if "only" half the scope of October 7?

This mess features not one but two parties who currently reject the concept of a cease fire.

replies(10): >>39148950 #>>39149385 #>>39149812 #>>39149917 #>>39149974 #>>39150129 #>>39150783 #>>39151418 #>>39152292 #>>39153568 #
Aeolun ◴[] No.39150783[source]
> All correct and yet, what should happen?

Happy, fed, employed people do not become terrorists. They have too much to lose.

replies(3): >>39151001 #>>39151472 #>>39151511 #
HDThoreaun ◴[] No.39151001{3}[source]
Too bad gaza has no land or economy to feed and employ themselves.
replies(2): >>39151621 #>>39154881 #
avmich ◴[] No.39151621{4}[source]
Doesn't mean they can't build it.
replies(2): >>39151639 #>>39152444 #
HDThoreaun ◴[] No.39151639{5}[source]
Building land is quite difficult. Building an economy is almost impossible when under a blockade, and Israel has no reason to end it.
replies(1): >>39152107 #
avmich ◴[] No.39152107{6}[source]
Israel is the one who's going to build it. See, the approach is the following: eliminate Hamas, then start a sort of deprogramming the society, similar to what was happening in Germany, with local specifics of course. Such an approach will take years, but the goal is to have the same effects as in Germany.

It's possible to provide food, water, services while keeping a close eye on the Gaza population and ensuring the idea of peaceful cohabitation is dominant. The economy will slowly - or even not so slowly - rebuild, and that's a part of the demonstration of possible and beneficial, from some positions, approach.

replies(3): >>39152762 #>>39153465 #>>39154664 #
GordonS ◴[] No.39154664{7}[source]
> then start a sort of deprogramming the society

It could be argued that Israelis need "deprogramming" - look at the scenes we've seen over the past few days, with hordes of Israeli civilians blocking aid from entering Gaza. Look at the torrent of vileness spewed forth online by many Israelis. Look at the Israeli Telegram groups where they share and laugh at images of dead Palestinian children (actually, don't look; it's just too much).

Religious extremism is not just a "Muslim thing".

replies(1): >>39155298 #
maroonblazer ◴[] No.39155298{8}[source]
If Israel really wanted to wipe the Palestinians off the map they have the resources to do it. But they don't. Based on claims Hamas have made, in their founding charter and other public statements, if they had the resources to wipe the Jews off the map they would do it, without hesitation.

That's the difference.

replies(1): >>39155398 #
1. GordonS ◴[] No.39155398{9}[source]
As I'm sure you know, the Hamas charter no longer says anything like that - it explicitly says their beef is with Zionists and their treatment of Palestinians, not Jewish people or the Jewish faith.

The only people we see killing day after day after day, without hesitation, are the IDF.

It's quite clear that Israel has been doing everything they can to render Gaza uninhabitable - senior officials have even publicly said that's their aim. Furthermore, it's clear the aim is a revenge-fueled massacre of civilians, followed by ethnic cleansing - senior officials regularly call for Gazans to be shipped out to other countries.