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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

(apnews.com)
517 points xbar | 19 comments | 26 Jan 24 14:35 UTC | HN request time: 0.003s | source | bottom
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locallost ◴[26 Jan 24 21:36 UTC] No.39148816[source]▶
My views on the situation aside, the clearest I saw anyone communicate the issues from a global angle was the former French prime minister Dominique de Villepin

Translated here: https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1718201487132885246

Viewed from the angle of the West, I think the message it needs to avoid isolating itself from the world is very unusual for Western media and important.

Quote:

"Westerners must open their eyes to the extent of the historical drama unfolding before us to find the right answers."

And

"This Palestinian question will not fade. And so we must address it and find an answer. This is where we need courage. The use of force is a dead end. The moral condemnation of what Hamas did - and there's no "but" in my words regarding the moral condemnation of this horror - must not prevent us from moving forward politically and diplomatically in an enlightened manner. The law of retaliation is a never-ending cycle."

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pgeorgi ◴[26 Jan 24 21:43 UTC] No.39148909[source]▶
All correct and yet, what should happen? Israel stops their campaign. And then?

Spend tons of money on iron dome to shoot down the rockets and hope that Hamas won't manage to conduct another massacre, even if "only" half the scope of October 7?

This mess features not one but two parties who currently reject the concept of a cease fire.

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1. Aeolun ◴[27 Jan 24 00:17 UTC] No.39150783[source]▶
> All correct and yet, what should happen?

Happy, fed, employed people do not become terrorists. They have too much to lose.

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2. HDThoreaun ◴[27 Jan 24 00:39 UTC] No.39151001[source]▶
Too bad gaza has no land or economy to feed and employ themselves.
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3. maroonblazer ◴[27 Jan 24 01:40 UTC] No.39151472[source]▶
Not if they have more to gain in 'heaven'. Remember, Hamas are religious fanatics.
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4. bart_spoon ◴[27 Jan 24 01:45 UTC] No.39151511[source]▶
That is certainly not true. Exhibit A: Osama bin Laden’s father was literally a multi-billionaire and he himself inherited $30-50 million.
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5. avmich ◴[27 Jan 24 01:59 UTC] No.39151615[source]▶
He's not "people", he's a "human". One human could be significantly off from the expected behavior; many people are less so.
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6. avmich ◴[27 Jan 24 01:59 UTC] No.39151621[source]▶
Doesn't mean they can't build it.
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7. HDThoreaun ◴[27 Jan 24 02:02 UTC] No.39151639{3}[source]▶
Building land is quite difficult. Building an economy is almost impossible when under a blockade, and Israel has no reason to end it.
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8. avmich ◴[27 Jan 24 03:15 UTC] No.39152107{4}[source]▶
Israel is the one who's going to build it. See, the approach is the following: eliminate Hamas, then start a sort of deprogramming the society, similar to what was happening in Germany, with local specifics of course. Such an approach will take years, but the goal is to have the same effects as in Germany.

It's possible to provide food, water, services while keeping a close eye on the Gaza population and ensuring the idea of peaceful cohabitation is dominant. The economy will slowly - or even not so slowly - rebuild, and that's a part of the demonstration of possible and beneficial, from some positions, approach.

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9. peterashford ◴[27 Jan 24 04:04 UTC] No.39152418[source]▶
hamas != palestine
10. ◴[27 Jan 24 04:08 UTC] No.39152444{3}[source]▶
11. Sabinus ◴[27 Jan 24 05:04 UTC] No.39152762{5}[source]▶
The Israelis might not have the appetite to administer Gaza themselves. They would want an Arab state to take it but no one wants that headache and they prefer using the Palestinian issue to bash Israel. UN, maybe?
12. mk89 ◴[27 Jan 24 07:31 UTC] No.39153465{5}[source]▶
Do you believe that people in Gaza will accept that Israel rebuilds it? And for how long? Because I already foresee a minority craving for independence against the old invaders that "enslaved us with money, first took our land, then they tried to buy us out...".

Etc.

The comparison with Germany doesn't stand. Two completely different situations, different histories, different people, different mindsets, different economies. You can't just let them rebuild it and hope that people in Gaza don't plan your destruction again and again.

13. Aeolun ◴[27 Jan 24 07:41 UTC] No.39153512[source]▶
You think Osama was happy? The man was clearly very, very angry about something, and I doubt it was inheriting a bunch of money.
14. Aeolun ◴[27 Jan 24 07:44 UTC] No.39153527[source]▶
They have to be religious fanatics because that’s all they have to cling to. If I’m going to fight a losing battle against a grossly superior enemy I also want to believe that I’ll end up in paradise for it.

You might note that that brand of fanaticism goes down rapidly in countries that have high standards of living.

15. GordonS ◴[27 Jan 24 11:27 UTC] No.39154664{5}[source]▶
> then start a sort of deprogramming the society

It could be argued that Israelis need "deprogramming" - look at the scenes we've seen over the past few days, with hordes of Israeli civilians blocking aid from entering Gaza. Look at the torrent of vileness spewed forth online by many Israelis. Look at the Israeli Telegram groups where they share and laugh at images of dead Palestinian children (actually, don't look; it's just too much).

Religious extremism is not just a "Muslim thing".

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16. cultofmetatron ◴[27 Jan 24 12:08 UTC] No.39154881[source]▶
they've tried. I saw this youtube video awhile back about a man from gaza who built an inland fish farm to raise food to feed people because the fishermen were forbidden by isreal fro boing to the areas where the fish were.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxEqXkdJUWY&ab_channel=Insid...

17. maroonblazer ◴[27 Jan 24 13:18 UTC] No.39155298{6}[source]▶
If Israel really wanted to wipe the Palestinians off the map they have the resources to do it. But they don't. Based on claims Hamas have made, in their founding charter and other public statements, if they had the resources to wipe the Jews off the map they would do it, without hesitation.

That's the difference.

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18. GordonS ◴[27 Jan 24 13:33 UTC] No.39155398{7}[source]▶
As I'm sure you know, the Hamas charter no longer says anything like that - it explicitly says their beef is with Zionists and their treatment of Palestinians, not Jewish people or the Jewish faith.

The only people we see killing day after day after day, without hesitation, are the IDF.

It's quite clear that Israel has been doing everything they can to render Gaza uninhabitable - senior officials have even publicly said that's their aim. Furthermore, it's clear the aim is a revenge-fueled massacre of civilians, followed by ethnic cleansing - senior officials regularly call for Gazans to be shipped out to other countries.

19. faizmokh ◴[28 Jan 24 03:29 UTC] No.39162277[source]▶
and the IDF is not? There's a lot of videos showing the IDF dancing holding up Torah scroll in destroyed hospitals or buildings.