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ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

(apnews.com)
517 points xbar | 22 comments | 26 Jan 24 14:35 UTC | HN request time: 2.182s | source | bottom
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locallost ◴[26 Jan 24 21:36 UTC] No.39148816[source]▶
My views on the situation aside, the clearest I saw anyone communicate the issues from a global angle was the former French prime minister Dominique de Villepin

Translated here: https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1718201487132885246

Viewed from the angle of the West, I think the message it needs to avoid isolating itself from the world is very unusual for Western media and important.

Quote:

"Westerners must open their eyes to the extent of the historical drama unfolding before us to find the right answers."

And

"This Palestinian question will not fade. And so we must address it and find an answer. This is where we need courage. The use of force is a dead end. The moral condemnation of what Hamas did - and there's no "but" in my words regarding the moral condemnation of this horror - must not prevent us from moving forward politically and diplomatically in an enlightened manner. The law of retaliation is a never-ending cycle."

replies(6): >>39148909 #>>39148934 #>>39148966 #>>39149209 #>>39150381 #>>39151344 #
1. nemo44x ◴[26 Jan 24 22:02 UTC] No.39149209[source]▶
> The law of retaliation is a never-ending cycle.

Well, there are ways to end it. Historically there have been thousands of cyclical conflicts that eventually ended without a diplomatic solution.

replies(1): >>39149446 #
2. locallost ◴[26 Jan 24 22:18 UTC] No.39149446[source]▶
In this situation I disagree. The world is overwhelmingly pro Palestine, and the Arab world obviously. They will not go away. Israel will not go away either.
replies(2): >>39149725 #>>39149932 #
3. eej71 ◴[26 Jan 24 22:35 UTC] No.39149725[source]▶
They don't have to go away.

But, I think its reasonable to assert that the Arab world desperately needs to become more secularized. Most of the Arab world is deeply anti-semitic, deeply tribal (even amongst themselves), and deeply backwards in their orientation to what makes a free society possible.

In that sense, the palestinians need a big cultural change.

replies(2): >>39149990 #>>39150639 #
4. Wytwwww ◴[26 Jan 24 22:53 UTC] No.39149932[source]▶
> The world is overwhelmingly pro Palestine

That's arguable, certainly in the west at least. Even if most people oppose the current war/atrocities that doesn't mean that they generally favour Palestine (or especially Hamas..) over Israel (.e.g. like you didn't have to be pro-Sadam to oppose the war in Iraq).

replies(1): >>39150646 #
5. octopoc ◴[26 Jan 24 23:00 UTC] No.39149990{3}[source]▶
That might have happened if Israel hadn't interfered to deny Gazans any alternative to Hamas. Presumably they hoped that would cripple Gaza even more.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up...

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-q...

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/why-netanyahu-bolste...

https://theintercept.com/2023/10/14/hamas-israel-palestinian...

replies(1): >>39150682 #
6. vcryan ◴[27 Jan 24 00:01 UTC] No.39150639{3}[source]▶
Where are you getting this information? Arab don't "need to become secularized" -- why? To make you happy? Being Muslim doesn't make a person anti-Jewish. It is extremely bizarre that you are calling for an entire group of millions of people to change their culture.
replies(1): >>39151333 #
7. vcryan ◴[27 Jan 24 00:02 UTC] No.39150646{3}[source]▶
The world is pro-justice. At the moment, Israel's genocide and the long-term brutal occupation have caused anyone to pay attention to support Palestine.
replies(2): >>39150703 #>>39160123 #
8. starik36 ◴[27 Jan 24 00:06 UTC] No.39150682{4}[source]▶
These are all op-eds. Opinions, not facts. That's one. Secondly, for some of the links, if you follow the logic, they are suggesting that Israel should have gone to war with Hamas earlier and eliminated it. Thirdly, what exactly are you suggesting Israel should have done earlier in relation to Gaza and Hamas?

You probably don't know. Neither do I. If we did, other smarter people would have too and it would have probably been implemented already.

replies(1): >>39151600 #
9. nerpderp82 ◴[27 Jan 24 00:32 UTC] No.39150925{5}[source]▶
Watch the closing remarks, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttrJd2aWF-Y it is short.

And then the whole thing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FryDCvI7YLo

https://web.archive.org/web/20240125185410/https://www.irish...

replies(1): >>39151226 #
10. starik36 ◴[27 Jan 24 01:09 UTC] No.39151226{6}[source]▶
It's remarks by the plaintiff's attorney meant to elicit emotion. It includes zero context. Who died - were they militants with guns? Were they civilian casualties of war? No one knows. Just a bizarre connection between Bethlehem and Gaza. Bethlehem is not in Gaza.

I am not sure what facts I am supposed to gather from this.

replies(1): >>39151348 #
11. eej71 ◴[27 Jan 24 01:20 UTC] No.39151333{4}[source]▶
As one source, I'd highly recommend Unveiled: How Western Liberals Empower Radical Islam. Yasmine Mohammed provides some first hand experiences here.

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/49645708

12. nerpderp82 ◴[27 Jan 24 01:23 UTC] No.39151348{7}[source]▶
Of course it was, those were the closing remarks. You can watch the full speech which gives you the argument spelled out.

Or read South Africa's case https://www.icj-cij.org/case/192

Ms Ní Ghrálaigh's pedigree in addressing genocide is extensive, as mentioned in the linked article.

One can only counter misdirection with facts. There is a Zionist genocide of Palestinians going on right now in Gaza.

replies(1): >>39152192 #
13. ◴[27 Jan 24 01:29 UTC] No.39151392{5}[source]▶
14. SirSavary ◴[27 Jan 24 01:56 UTC] No.39151600{5}[source]▶
Benjamin Netanyahu encouraging the funding of Hamas via Qatar is not an opinion, it's a fact. The situation Israel is dealing with right now is entirely of their own making; it's called blowback.
replies(2): >>39152268 #>>39154107 #
15. starik36 ◴[27 Jan 24 03:26 UTC] No.39152192{8}[source]▶
The court said no such thing. Don't spread misinformation.
replies(1): >>39178419 #
16. FactKnower69 ◴[27 Jan 24 03:34 UTC] No.39152248{5}[source]▶
Thanks for literally linking the Dictionary.com definition of "genocide", but what is the title of the article are you commenting on again?
17. starik36 ◴[27 Jan 24 03:36 UTC] No.39152268{6}[source]▶
See...you are taking something that did happen and twisting it to fit your bias.

The money from Qatar had humanitarian goals like paying government salaries in Gaza and buying fuel to keep a power plant running. Obviously, the money was misused and spent on building rockets and missiles. But also a portion was spent on what Qatar intended.

The rationale at the time (this was not a secret deal or anything like that) was that Qatar money is going to make it to Gaza one way or another anyway - it's better if Israel knows about it.

And somehow throwing Netanyahu into the mix is just meant to have some people see red. He was out of power for a year and a half. Surely if it was his personal agenda, the govt that took over after him would stop the payments. They didn't.

But I agree with you that no matter how you twist it, it's definitely a blowback.

replies(1): >>39155566 #
18. SomeoneFromCA ◴[27 Jan 24 09:46 UTC] No.39154107{6}[source]▶
Ben Gvir, Smotrich were all foaming in their mouths how great Hamas is for israel.
19. eej71 ◴[27 Jan 24 13:58 UTC] No.39155566{7}[source]▶
If Israel is guilty of a sin, they are guilty of moral appeasement. They need to stop giving sanction to their destroyers.
20. edanm ◴[27 Jan 24 21:39 UTC] No.39160123{4}[source]▶
The world includes a lot of people and a lot of countries. Many of them strongly disagree with your characterization of what is happening as a genocide, including many of the world's democracies. You can think whatever you want about the conflict - but it is undeniablely wrong to say that "anyone paying attention" is supporting Palestine.

(I also strongly disagree with calling it a genocide, btw.)

replies(1): >>39161046 #
21. vcryan ◴[27 Jan 24 23:48 UTC] No.39161046{5}[source]▶
It is a genocide regardless of public opinion.
22. nerpderp82 ◴[29 Jan 24 16:40 UTC] No.39178419{9}[source]▶
I didn't say that court said, "There is a Zionist genocide of Palestinians going on right now in Gaza." I did.

My comment was asking you to read the original sources, you are twisting my words.