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tycho-newman ◴[] No.39143131[source]
Under the Rome Statute that set up the international criminal court, apartheid is defined as a crime where:

>inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them".

Netanyahu's approach to the Palestinians likely fits into this definition.

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drc500free ◴[] No.39143951[source]
It's worth noting that system does not apply to 2 million Israeli Arabs (nearly all of whom self-identify as "Palestinian" from an ethnic/national perspective) of the exact same race as the Palestinians in the occupied territories.

The overt driver of the system - and the one that is agreed to across the whole Jewish-Israeli population - is the security issue of a Palestinian population that has held since 1948 that they are still at war with Israel, will never accept a Jewish state in the region, and will one day drive the Jews into the sea. This belief is propped up by constant propaganda from other Arab states and UNRWA (which has defined itself to exist because of a Right of Return that applies to 750k Palestinians and their descendants in perpetuity, but doesn't apply to the 14 millions Indians & Pakistanis, 12 million Germans, or 2-3 million Poles & Ukrainians who were also displaced by ethnic partitions established in 1947-1948).

Israel shows every day that they are willing and able to live closely with the Palestinians who accept their right to exist and aren't trying to murder their families, without using apartheid-like systems of control. Israeli Arabs certainly face suspicion and unofficial day-to-day discrimination, but if you asked Israelis how they would feel about an equal two-state system where West Bank and Gaza were a sovereign nation populated by Palestinians who were like the Israeli Arabs, they would largely be on board. There would be friction for a while, but it would be tolerable for both states to survive and thrive without the security apparatus that needs to be in place right now.

There is no doubt that Netanyahu's current governing coalition is made up of racists and religious extremists who would NOT be okay with that. Many of those secretaries want to use security issues as a pretext to fully take over "greater Israel," and use the border wall as much to keep their actions there hidden from the Israeli public as they use it to keep Hamas and IJ terror attacks to a minimum. But the PA - for all its collaboration and security partnership with the IDF - still pays bounties to the families of suicide bombers. And the reason more moderate Palestinian leaders have never been able to really negotiate a settlement is that they would be immediately overthrown by a populace who never accepted 1948 as the end of a decades-long attempt to throw the Jews out of Palestine.

This has not been adjudicated in court, but I think it's difficult to claim that the current system is primarily an ethnic or racial one when it doesn't apply to the millions of Palestinians who are accepting of their neighbors. Even if it is often abused by racists.

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1. The_Colonel ◴[] No.39148160[source]
> is the security issue of a Palestinian population that has held since 1948 that they are still at war with Israel, will never accept a Jewish state in the region

Will Israelis accept a sovereign Palestinian state in the region? A clear NO.

Even the 1990s / 2000s two-state solutions were never meant from Israeli side as recognizing full sovereignty of Palestine - it was meant to be more like an Israeli protectorate with its own administration but without its own armed forces, no control over air space etc.

> and will one day drive the Jews into the sea

While many Israelis are eager to drive Palestinians to the sea. (check Daniela Weiss as a somewhat prominent example)

The current government seems to want to ethnically cleanse Gaza. The West Bank has to expect a similar fate, just way slower with expanding settlements.

> but I think it's difficult to claim that the current system is primarily an ethnic or racial one when it doesn't apply to the millions of Palestinians who are accepting of their neighbors

Still apartheid. You can't explain it away so easily.

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2. The_Colonel ◴[] No.39148610[source]
> not a single country will accept a soverein Palestenian state, because they're ruled by terrorists.

You yourself say that Palestinians can live completely peacefully, why can't they have a sovereign state with a better government? I hope that after years of Israeli government / Netanyahu supporting Hamas [1], they will change the strategy.

1. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up...

> 20% of the Knessest is Muslim/Arab. Have you been to Israel? Muslims, Jews, Christians all coexist peacefully you have no idea what apartheid means.

The apartheid regime is instituted in Gaza and West Bank, not in Israel proper.

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3. CapricornNoble ◴[] No.39150402[source]
> you want a terrorist nation having a full functioning military and access to nuclear weapons? really?

we already have several: US, Russia, China....and Israel.

https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/2022/01/20/the-murde...

Murder/attempted murder of adversary citizens in neutral territory is just one of a legion of examples of behavior the West constantly criticizes Russia for, by the way.

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4. Beefin ◴[] No.39151085{3}[source]
israel in the same category as russia? really? you can walk around tel aviv square in your underpants...
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5. CapricornNoble ◴[] No.39151255{4}[source]
>israel in the same category as russia?

The Russian government kills unarmed civilians outside of Russia. Usually Russians, but not always. The Israeli government also kills unarmed civilians outside of Israel. So yes, in the category of "nation states that covertly murder people globally with negligible consequences", both are present. Hell even India is in that group lately...