ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire

It's worth noting that system does not apply to 2 million Israeli Arabs (nearly all of whom self-identify as "Palestinian" from an ethnic/national perspective) of the exact same race as the Palestinians in the occupied territories.

The overt driver of the system - and the one that is agreed to across the whole Jewish-Israeli population - is the security issue of a Palestinian population that has held since 1948 that they are still at war with Israel, will never accept a Jewish state in the region, and will one day drive the Jews into the sea. This belief is propped up by constant propaganda from other Arab states and UNRWA (which has defined itself to exist because of a Right of Return that applies to 750k Palestinians and their descendants in perpetuity, but doesn't apply to the 14 millions Indians & Pakistanis, 12 million Germans, or 2-3 million Poles & Ukrainians who were also displaced by ethnic partitions established in 1947-1948).

Israel shows every day that they are willing and able to live closely with the Palestinians who accept their right to exist and aren't trying to murder their families, without using apartheid-like systems of control. Israeli Arabs certainly face suspicion and unofficial day-to-day discrimination, but if you asked Israelis how they would feel about an equal two-state system where West Bank and Gaza were a sovereign nation populated by Palestinians who were like the Israeli Arabs, they would largely be on board. There would be friction for a while, but it would be tolerable for both states to survive and thrive without the security apparatus that needs to be in place right now.

There is no doubt that Netanyahu's current governing coalition is made up of racists and religious extremists who would NOT be okay with that. Many of those secretaries want to use security issues as a pretext to fully take over "greater Israel," and use the border wall as much to keep their actions there hidden from the Israeli public as they use it to keep Hamas and IJ terror attacks to a minimum. But the PA - for all its collaboration and security partnership with the IDF - still pays bounties to the families of suicide bombers. And the reason more moderate Palestinian leaders have never been able to really negotiate a settlement is that they would be immediately overthrown by a populace who never accepted 1948 as the end of a decades-long attempt to throw the Jews out of Palestine.

This has not been adjudicated in court, but I think it's difficult to claim that the current system is primarily an ethnic or racial one when it doesn't apply to the millions of Palestinians who are accepting of their neighbors. Even if it is often abused by racists.

Your claim that Israel does not use an apartheid system of control and discrimination is false

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-...

I would ask for the evidence you have for such a claim

Are you a credible entity to make determinations about credibility, throwaway8877?

> Israel shows every day that they are willing and able to live closely with the Palestinians who accept their right to exist and aren't trying to murder their families, without using apartheid-like systems of control

This is very much not the case in the West Bank where expropriation and colonisation of Palestinian land by Israeli settlers continue, under the watchful eye of the Israeli army.

The Israeli state has done it's best to ensure that there can be no viable Palestinian state, condemning millions of Palestinians to eternal military occupation and second class status in their own homeland.

Any claim that Israel is acting in good faith towards Palestinians is very much undermined by these facts.

> is the security issue of a Palestinian population that has held since 1948 that they are still at war with Israel, will never accept a Jewish state in the region

Will Israelis accept a sovereign Palestinian state in the region? A clear NO.

Even the 1990s / 2000s two-state solutions were never meant from Israeli side as recognizing full sovereignty of Palestine - it was meant to be more like an Israeli protectorate with its own administration but without its own armed forces, no control over air space etc.

> and will one day drive the Jews into the sea

While many Israelis are eager to drive Palestinians to the sea. (check Daniela Weiss as a somewhat prominent example)

The current government seems to want to ethnically cleanse Gaza. The West Bank has to expect a similar fate, just way slower with expanding settlements.

> but I think it's difficult to claim that the current system is primarily an ethnic or racial one when it doesn't apply to the millions of Palestinians who are accepting of their neighbors

Still apartheid. You can't explain it away so easily.

West Bank settlers are overtly funded by right-wing christian evangelists from the U.S.

The Likud turns a blind eye because its basically a free military. Moreover, it provides a military buffer between Israel's mainland population and much of the radicalized West Bank population.

I agree that the actions in the occupied territories are oppressive and terrible. I was referring to the actions within Israel itself, towards Israeli Arab Citizens. Which shows that the oppressive actions is not based on ethnicity or religion, it's based on fear.

> not a single country will accept a soverein Palestenian state, because they're ruled by terrorists.

You yourself say that Palestinians can live completely peacefully, why can't they have a sovereign state with a better government? I hope that after years of Israeli government / Netanyahu supporting Hamas [1], they will change the strategy.

1. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up...

> 20% of the Knessest is Muslim/Arab. Have you been to Israel? Muslims, Jews, Christians all coexist peacefully you have no idea what apartheid means.

The apartheid regime is instituted in Gaza and West Bank, not in Israel proper.

... and an opportunistic land-grab on a huge scale at the expense of Palestinians.

> you want a terrorist nation having a full functioning military and access to nuclear weapons? really?

we already have several: US, Russia, China....and Israel.

https://www.malaymail.com/news/malaysia/2022/01/20/the-murde...

Murder/attempted murder of adversary citizens in neutral territory is just one of a legion of examples of behavior the West constantly criticizes Russia for, by the way.

Thing is, that fear is taught in schools, a large part if not most of the Israeli population are too young to remember the holocaust, so this is propagation of fear on a national scale, and to what end?

Additional, yes there are discriminatory laws within Israel, such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_citizenship_law

And https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/27/israeli-protests-ca...

israel in the same category as russia? really? you can walk around tel aviv square in your underpants...

>israel in the same category as russia?

The Russian government kills unarmed civilians outside of Russia. Usually Russians, but not always. The Israeli government also kills unarmed civilians outside of Israel. So yes, in the category of "nation states that covertly murder people globally with negligible consequences", both are present. Hell even India is in that group lately...

They made baseless and not properly confirmed accusations about minor incidents against Ukraine in 2022 while ignoring Russian atrocities allowing Russia to execute considerable information war operations against Ukraine.

In 2023 they were caught on multiple occasions to propagate very serious and harming Hamas propaganda. In one case they participated in an infowar attack that resulted in clear danger to the United States citizens and army personnel.

The value that Amnesty like organisations provide is incredibly important but I can't see how Amnesty itself in the current state can be trusted.

For myself, yes. I have eyes, ears and memory.

Do you have sources for these accusations?

Ethnicity and nationality is not the same thing. Oppressive actions can easily be between two ethnically similar, but nationally different groups.