←back to thread

264 points toomuchtodo | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0.432s | source
Show context
dvektor ◴[] No.38455412[source]
Here (Maine) calls are almost $7.00/hr which is indeed outrageous, however the jobs pay 2-4x better than other prisons i've been in, the food is better, you are given more things like clothes that other prisons would make you pay for. And I am allowed to go to college, and even hold a job developing software.

So although it is absurd, I have been in other prisons where the calls are dirt cheap but they have shit food, they dont give you ANYTHING and there isn't shit for opportunities. I understand that sometimes the profit they make off the calls might be going to things like quality of the food, etc. I know that this is almost never the case, but I do know that it is somewhat the case here.

replies(7): >>38455835 #>>38456088 #>>38456135 #>>38456219 #>>38457910 #>>38459105 #>>38459174 #
hsbauauvhabzb ◴[] No.38456219[source]
Prison is supposed to be rehabilitation, not a self-funding machine.
replies(3): >>38456242 #>>38456259 #>>38458280 #
JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.38456259[source]
> Prison is supposed to be rehabilitation

That’s one part. The others are deterrence, incapacitation, retribution and restitution [1].

Letting prisoner’s work aids rehabilitation. Letting them earn further aids restitution.

[1] https://open.lib.umn.edu/criminallaw/chapter/1-5-the-purpose...

replies(3): >>38456841 #>>38456985 #>>38464513 #
1. indymike ◴[] No.38464513[source]
> That’s one part. The others are deterrence, incapacitation, retribution and restitution [1].

Deterrence (fail) - 44% of criminals go to jail again.

Retribution (fail) - Not sure what the value of retribution is other than deterrance. See above.

Incapacitation - a substantial number of inmates commit crimes while in prison.

We need to find a better way.

replies(1): >>38464798 #
2. JumpCrisscross ◴[] No.38464798[source]
TL; DR I'm not arguing we do these things well. I'm just saying these are the components of justice.

> Not sure what the value of retribution is other than deterrance

It's irrational. But it seems fundamental to human nature. If you remove deterrence, victims and those who identify with them--which in the modern world is increasingly the public--take justice into their own hands.

The 1984 subway shooting acquittal is one example [1]. Goetz shot four people in cold blood. He was obviously guilty. But the jury acquitted, because he was seen as acting justly. (The four kids "allegedly tried to rob him," and there was a lot of unpunished robbery in New York at the time.) The reaction was in excess of self protection. But the public bought into the vengeance narrative because the criminal justice system wasn't doing it for them.

Another example was Chesa Boudin refusing to prosecute someone who unintentionally killed a kid. He said it wouldon't bring the child back. Which is true. But that infuriated the victim's family. They wanted revenge. (They got it through the recall. But most families don't have recourse to the political system to sort things out peacefully.)

> substantial number of inmates commit crimes while in prison

Not on the public. But yes, we fail at this.

> We need to find a better way

I agree. I'm describing tenets of justice. We fail to do justice in America--we do not deter, we do not incapacitate and we certainly don't rehabilitate. We're okay with restitution and retribution, though it's a statistical versus comprehensive approach.

That doesn't undermine the theory, however, which has persisted for millenia and across cultures for good reasons.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_New_York_City_Subway_shoo...