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OpenGL 3.1 on Asahi Linux

(asahilinux.org)
512 points simjue | 28 comments | | HN request time: 1.846s | source | bottom
1. tormeh ◴[] No.36214049[source]
Sorry, but what's the point? Why not just buy a Linux laptop and have everything work out of the box? Why are Linux enthusiasts putting so much effort into supporting hardware from companies that - at best - ignore Linux? This question is also valid for other manufacturers, btw, not just Apple. So much time wasted doing free labor for hardware companies that will just break your stuff with the next hardware iteration.
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2. solarkraft ◴[] No.36214091[source]
What Linux laptop has comparable hardware?
3. lonjil ◴[] No.36214148[source]
> Why not just buy a Linux laptop and have everything work out of the box? Why are Linux enthusiasts putting so much effort into supporting hardware from companies that - at best - ignore Linux?

Almost all laptops sold with Linux pre-installed or with support advertized only work well with Linux due to volunteer work similar to what is being done with Apple's stuff right now. Almost everything is proprietary with close to zero upstream support, you just don't notice it because the work has already been done.

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4. kaba0 ◴[] No.36214270[source]
> Why not just buy a Linux laptop

Please tell me where is it because I will buy it instantly, and I’m only half kidding.

I don’t see how making linux available on possibly the currently available best laptop hardware any different to the previous decades of hacking a working wifi driver into the kernel. It was always an uphill battle, and we should be thankful for those who take up the hard work!

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5. paddim8 ◴[] No.36214597[source]
The point? There are no other ARM laptops that are even close to being competitive right now. I want a good fanless laptop. My only choice is Apple. Asahi made it possible and I now have a great experience. What's the problem?
replies(1): >>36215048 #
6. neonsunset ◴[] No.36214708[source]
Far superior hardware.
7. ◴[] No.36215048[source]
8. mk_stjames ◴[] No.36215136[source]
For me, the Macbook Pro 14 with a 10-core M1 Pro I am typing on has my favorite keyboard and trackpad I've ever used on a laptop (2nd place was the 2013 MBP and this feels the same). It has the best display I've ever set eyes on.

The battery life is the best of any laptop I have ever used by far.

And the performance for number crunching is as high as any x86 machine I had previously and per watt it blows everything out of the water. And it is dead silent while doing so, whereas every x86 'work' powered laptop I ever used would wind up sounding like a jet engine with my workloads.

So for someone who runs linux.. if they want to run it on hardware that is this nice (to me at least)... this is it. This is worth it. It's worth developing for.

Also, Apple is going to stick with the M-series SOC's for a long time now that they have switched. And they tend to keep hardware interfaces for a long time too. So the development of Asahi now will bear fruit for... at least the next decade I'd say.

I still use OSX for daily activities, but the kernel Asahi is developing may be my plan to stretch this 2021 M1 MBP 14 out hopefully to the year 2030, as MacOS moves on. My 2013 intel i7 Macbook Pro made it to 2021... 8 years of daily use and world travel. I was beyond the moon with that product performance and I'm expecting similar from these new macbooks based on my current 1.5 years of use.

9. josephcsible ◴[] No.36215456[source]
> Please tell me where is it because I will buy it instantly, and I’m only half kidding.

System76? Star Labs? Purism? HP Dev One?

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10. ac29 ◴[] No.36215507[source]
System76? Framework? Even Dell has a number of Linux laptops.

If your requirements are "must run an Apple designed ARM processor", then yes, your choices are pretty limited.

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11. cultofmetatron ◴[] No.36215643[source]
system 76 makes linux ready hardware. personally I'm waiting for a framework which does have some linux support
12. biomcgary ◴[] No.36215812[source]
In an OSS ecosystem, manufacturers inherently have to use work that has been done by volunteers! The real question is whether they invest their own resources too. For example, System76 has created their own distro, Pop OS. My team and I were happy with the laptops purchased from them and the OS integration provided a smooth experience.
13. sbuk ◴[] No.36216139[source]
With that attitude, Linux and its ecosystem wouldn’t exist. But to answer your question; because they can and are having fun doing so.
14. nsonha ◴[] No.36216700[source]
Are there commercially available arm-based linux laptops? I'm not after horsepower just decent battery life and enough computing power to do non-AI programming.
15. nsonha ◴[] No.36216714{3}[source]
ANY arm processor, do tell
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16. mschuster91 ◴[] No.36217676[source]
> Why not just buy a Linux laptop and have everything work out of the box?

Because these things are rare as gold in the first place as being Linux ready isn't a focus for most OEMs, sometimes severely lag behind the competition in feature support (e.g. limited to UVC webcams with crap quality), have serious availability issues (Framework), you have a tough time getting service or spare parts, or barely any resale value, or limited choices in screens (which is the one and only thing keeping me from a Framework - who the fuck wants a 3:2 screen?). Also, tough luck getting firmware updates for embedded components.

Apple devices, spare parts and repair centers, in contrast, are widely available across the world (okay, maybe not in places sanctioned by the US), firmware updates come around when needed and hold their resale value for years.

17. hedora ◴[] No.36217773{3}[source]
System76 doesn't ship reasonable screens (they are all 144Hz 1080p):

https://system76.com/laptops-ultraportables https://system76.com/laptops-powerful

The only exception is the Bonobo, but it comes with a discrete GPU, so its battery life + weight are going to suck. Also, its keyboard is off center.

Most of the star labs machines have low resolution displays, but I can find nothing wrong with this one. If you choose AMD, a reasonable config is $2600, which is comparable to Apple. However, they are only building 10,000 units, and taking preorders, so it might be unobtainable:

https://us.starlabs.systems/pages/starfighter

The purism offering seems OK except that it is a 10th generation intel, and those were extremely bad, even by recent intel standards. Maybe they'll get an AMD refresh out the door with the same ergonomics.

The HP has an off-centered keyboard and trackpad and a 1080p display.

So, of those four vendors, there's one model that's vaguely competitive, but it's a limited production run pre-order.

18. sliken ◴[] No.36218635[source]
Apple makes good hardware and makes good engineering decisions. Sure other laptop makers have low end and high end options. But frustratingly often match apple on 50-75% of the features. Sure some have nice still aluminum bodies. Some have screens that match or beat apple's. Some have nice centered quality touchpads and keyboards. Some have great battery life. Some have great performance.

Very few match on all aspects. I'd tried a few and always had one terrible issue. Terrible battery life, lousy screen, and/or terrible touchpad. Apple does seem willing to make improvements without as much worry about backward compatibility. There are a few that match on everything I care about, but often cost more than the Apple.

People like to complain and mention byzantine purchase methods. Wait for a lenovo sale, buy the bare bones model, apply the discount code, then buy dimms and SSDs from random bargain basement sellers. Oh and buy the linux compatible wifi card and do surgery on your laptop to get wifi working after suspend.

MBA is pretty compelling mix of performance, size, cost, and battery life. Unlike any x86-64 laptop, you can pay $500 more or so and get double the memory bandwidth. Or another $500+ and double it again. Definitely makes the macs better any PC at some workloads. Sure some x86-64 with a nice discrete GPU is way faster ... when plugged in to wall power.

19. sliken ◴[] No.36218787{3}[source]
HP Dev one works well, kudos to System76 for the desktop env.

It has the worst LCD panel I've seen in many years. It's not the resolution just poor contrast and poor color accuracy. It pains me to see it.

They went on sale recently, I bought one, and shortly afterwards (a few months ago) they stopped selling them.

20. yjftsjthsd-h ◴[] No.36219469{4}[source]
Any? https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Lenovo_IdeaPad_Flex_3_Chr... is dirt cheap and runs PMOS quite well. Actually Chromebooks in general are a good bet when combined with PMOS - or even not combined with PMOS, if you can work with a normal Linux VM on top of ChromeOS.
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21. predictabl3 ◴[] No.36220712[source]
They don't exist, or if they do, they rely on far less (motivated, whatever that motivation might be) community folks to bring-up support. Which often happens are the device is a generation or two old.

Non-sbc aarch64 devices with good upstream support are damn near non-existent. I understand the Linux user market is small, but it's baffling to me that companies can't invest a small amount in having coordinated upstreaming efforts.

That said, I'm so delighted with my G14 2022 experience that I might just buy the 2024 version of it's all AMD again. I have better hardware control in Linux than Windows, I can play Halo Infinite in Linux (praise be Proton) and Windows. But... I suspect I'm going to be able to do the same thing on a likely more-battery efficient and nicer hardware M2 MBA by the end of the year. Nice to have options.

Edit: it's really soulcrushing to think about. Sdm845 devices are insanely cheap and yet upstream support still barely limps along, mostly with volunteer/donated efforts.

22. floatboth ◴[] No.36220769{4}[source]
Thinkpad x13s is an okay option, but Qualcomm is IMO more cursed than Apple
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23. MBCook ◴[] No.36221959[source]
Are there any PC laptops, running Linux or Windows, that you can buy for a similar price that run as long, as cool (temp), as fast, and with a screen as good as an M2 Air?

I know there are faster machines, but they’re usually hotter. There are cooler machines, but they’re usually not as fast. There are cheaper machines but the screens are worse. And there are long battery life machines but they’re usually low performance Chromebooks.

I don’t know of any other machine that made the trade-offs to end up offering a similar combination. At any price.

And I said nothing about noise or thinness.

Once you’ve used one, it’s a very seductive combination of features. I don’t want to go back to “6-8 hours of battery life is enough”, or hearing fans, or using my laptop as a hand-warmer in summer. And I don’t understand how 1080p is still so common.

24. nsonha ◴[] No.36221975{5}[source]
well obviously not a machine with 4GB of RAM running outdated CPU
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25. matheusmoreira ◴[] No.36222782[source]
The point is to have Linux support on some of the best hardware available at the moment.
26. nsonha ◴[] No.36224911{5}[source]
What do you mean?
27. yjftsjthsd-h ◴[] No.36230003{6}[source]
You said "ANY arm processor". If you'd like to further constrain the exact requirements, that would be a useful clarification. (Although, I suspect that some Chromebook will still work)
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28. nsonha ◴[] No.36237821{7}[source]
It's to respond to the remark that people are simping for Apple while in fact, they're just after a good arm-based laptop.