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    355 points rasulkireev | 30 comments | | HN request time: 0.67s | source | bottom

    Hey HN,

    I am a solo founder that just finished writing code for my project (MVP) and am ready to find clients.

    - for the sake of the question, my clients will be small physical businesses. Think, Family Doctor's Office, Local Cafe, Small barber, etc.

    I will be developing a blog for SEO purposes and doing other things to promote my business online. However, I believe the key to success here will be "Cold Sales". I have never done that before. So, if you could recommend a book, a blog post, other online resources, or you just have a random advice that I could learn from, I would be very thankful.

    Suffice it to say I will be starting out ASAP, even though I don't know anything. I believe practice is the best teacher. However, if there are any resources that could help me get up and running quicker that would be awesome. Thanks a ton in advance.

    1. BlueTie ◴[] No.33225164[source]
    Hi there - one of the few pro sellers on HN here.

    You're planning on prospecting into one of the most rejection-heavy domains out there with small physical business. These people get dozens of calls per day from companies they've never heard of - many of whom are trying to rip them off - and even the best ones (Groupon, Yelp, google ads, etc.) are basically just rent-seeking. Oh, and most have gatekeepers who don't care the slightest bit about your pitch.

    Because of that I'd stay away from all this "smile and dial" advice. You'll have no chance. Go out there and hit the pavement and meet these people at their establishments at off hours. If you catch the owner in there at a good time - do your best to inform them of your products benefits and come up with a really good offer to get started (something that loses you money and time). Free Trial, free month of services, whatever makes sense based on the context of your business. The goal is NOT to make money or build a book of business at this point - it's to get a person happy with your software to sell to later.

    If the owner is too busy or whatever - have some stuff printed out for them to read later that you can drop off. Ideally with a small gift (coffee, food, candy, etc.) and come back in a few weeks to see if you catch them at a better time (again with a gift, until they talk).

    A solid entry level book would be Fanatical Prospecting by Jeb Blount.

    Good Luck.

    *edit to fix book name

    replies(8): >>33225309 #>>33225385 #>>33225790 #>>33226482 #>>33226608 #>>33227891 #>>33228711 #>>33233390 #
    2. PaywallBuster ◴[] No.33225309[source]
    Fanatical Prospecting

    Should be the book name (I just tried to find it)

    replies(1): >>33225435 #
    3. jimmygrapes ◴[] No.33225385[source]
    I would recommend a slight verbiage change from "owners" to "decision makers" - depending on the industry and such, of course. I often end up gatekeeping on behalf of the owners of the business(es) I work for because they are far too busy/uninterested in random people trying to sell (legitimately useful) products and services, simply because the owners aren't necessarily the ones who would be the best point of contact for demos and the like.

    If you're trying to sell us a new software platform, you want to talk to our IT and Finance decision makers. If you're trying to sell us magazine/trade journal subscriptions, you want to talk to our Supply Chain/Marketing/Safety decision makers. If you're trying to sell us a physical product you'll want to talk to our Procurement/Operations/Production decision makers. And so on.

    The owners of any given business might need to be involved later on, but they are rarely the best people to talk to up front if you're trying to sell something.

    4. BlueTie ◴[] No.33225435[source]
    Nice catch. Fixed.
    5. MisterBastahrd ◴[] No.33225790[source]
    There's a reason that people still employ door to door salesmen: most people don't like to reject people in person. It's why you normally buy your new roof from a guy you just met and have so much trouble firing employees who used to be good but have fallen off the wagon.
    replies(2): >>33226440 #>>33228104 #
    6. newaccount74 ◴[] No.33226440[source]
    My partner worked as a waitress and had to kick out sales people all the time. It's amazing how many people want to sell stuff to restaurants and show up to "talk to the boss". Of course the boss had work to do and didn't want to see any salespeople...
    replies(3): >>33226508 #>>33226913 #>>33227223 #
    7. x0x0 ◴[] No.33226482[source]
    I briefly worked at a company that sold to restaurants. Just to emphasize this: they are hammered by people dialing for dollars. So OP is competing with SDR teams running sequences through outreach.io or similar.

    Realistically, OP has to develop a different sales channel. Which is both intimidating and probably more intimidating than it needs to be, because OP (likely?) isn't trying to be a billion dollar business, so doesn't need enormous scale.

    One (obvious?) suggestion to investigate is conventions or the local chamber of commerce.

    8. raverbashing ◴[] No.33226508{3}[source]
    Yeah "talk to the boss" is how spam worked before email

    Thanks but no thanks

    9. encephalos ◴[] No.33226608[source]
    Was coming here to reply: Fanatical Prospecting - start there. Glad it is in the top comment mentions.

    Good book to get a solid base on all the sales jargon and learning the generic sales cycle that applies to all products and services and businesses. It’s legit The Bible for all AEs/BDRs, I’ve even heard hiring managers / HR people say to potential candidates to read that book before applying for a sales role as the X Sales Manager / VP really applies the philosophy in their team(s).

    replies(2): >>33229729 #>>33232777 #
    10. cosmodisk ◴[] No.33226913{3}[source]
    When we were office based, I had a few encounters with salesmen,who managed to negotiate entry into restricted areas of the building,etc. Once, I was walking past the CEO's office and suddenly this guy appears out of nowhere looking to speak to someone. I walked him out, but I always wondered who the hell buys from them when they just pop in like nothing.
    replies(1): >>33228771 #
    11. rubidium ◴[] No.33227223{3}[source]
    Ooo, that was their first mistake. Rules for selling to restaurants: (1) go 3 hours before they open on a non busy weekday (eg Tuesday-Thursday) and knock on the back door (or just walk in!). If a breakfast place, buy a coffee just after the morning rush (9:30), then proceed to step (2).

    (2) say to the first person you see, “are you the owner/manager?”

    (3) either get directed to them immediately or get their phone number

    (4) have a 1-2 minute pitch , either deliver directly or on the phone.

    (5) if they really do seem to have time and interest keep selling. Otherwise schedule a followup for more info if they are interested

    If (4) fails, try again in 1-2 months.

    replies(1): >>33227470 #
    12. DanHulton ◴[] No.33227470{4}[source]
    I would escort you off the property with extreme prejudice.

    This is slimy. Don't do this.

    replies(1): >>33227685 #
    13. fudgeadt ◴[] No.33227685{5}[source]
    I came home on Friday to a fake postal slip indicating I had missed a delivery I was not expecting. I called the provided number and provided the “code” to be offered an ADT sales pitch.

    THAT is slimy.

    Asking to speak with folks the old fashioned way seems quaint to the point that I genuinely am appalled by your harshness here…

    EDIT: I asked my wife, a restaurant manager of some 15 years and former chef… this is exactly how folks both make sales pitches and seek work if they do not have an “in” already. This is not slimy, it’s normal course of business.

    replies(2): >>33227766 #>>33380510 #
    14. MarcelOlsz ◴[] No.33227766{6}[source]
    >Asking to speak with folks the old fashioned way seems quaint to the point that I genuinely am appalled by your harshness here…

    I think it was the "just slip through the back door!" part which is more than fair. I turn around with a sharp blade and your dumb ass is standing there and now both our lives are over.

    replies(2): >>33228120 #>>33232540 #
    15. MollyRealized ◴[] No.33227891[source]
    As someone who as an admin was a gatekeeper to an individual with greater deciding power, I'll underscore the power of the small gift. A bit of candy, a plate of cookies, etc. did stick you in my mind.
    replies(1): >>33228006 #
    16. 1letterunixname ◴[] No.33228006[source]
    Reciprocity is powerful. Be nice, generous, and act as grandma would've wanted mostly. Gratitude. Listening. And avoiding creating situations of patronizing flattery or bribery. Professional = being cool. Winternals (before being acquired by Microsoft) sent me a calendar pages / family photos flip holder. It was definitely more thoughtful than a coffee mug or generic swag.

    That's another thing: swag. Make it awesome (hopefully not overpriced) and desirable because it's a statement about the venture. Like branded pens that use Mont Blanc refills.

    replies(1): >>33230139 #
    17. NikolaNovak ◴[] No.33228104[source]
    On one hand, you're absolutely right that we hate to reject people in person. I mean, heck, I avoid entering small gift shops in tourist towns if I don't have cash on me, as I hate letting them down in their expectation of sale!

    At the same time, I've learned to never ever ever engage salespeople in person; I've been conditioned to assume they're 100% scam. The friendliest most honest face offering to clean my ducts or redo my driveway, the smiley nerdy guy offering discounts on internet from local Bell, the supremely trust worthy kids asking for your support of charity... or to your point the guy who's "in the neighbourhood, and can give me a discount on the roof since machinery is already here" -- literally every one of them I would read in the news few weeks later as the latest local fraud scheme.

    With heavy heart, I reject all cold calls & cold visits. I may ask for their website and details to check if they're legit, and possibly maybe reach back at a stable phone or email address. But, I'm said to say, I've been thoroughly conditioned by the environment to reject cold-calls :<

    18. tdehnel ◴[] No.33228120{7}[source]
    Yeah right like he was saying to sneak up behind the chef quietly lol
    19. acjohnson55 ◴[] No.33228711[source]
    My uncle, who is a successful entrepreneur, was interviewed for a podcast and dropped similar wisdom 35:36 - 38:40

    [C-CRETS] Black Trailblazer in American Business: A Conversation with Carlton Guthrie https://podcastaddict.com/episode/146606084

    replies(1): >>33229564 #
    20. jcadam ◴[] No.33228771{4}[source]
    It doesn't have to work every time, or even the majority of the time. If it works 1 time out of 10, they'll keep doing it.
    21. anyfactor ◴[] No.33229564[source]
    Listening to this right now and enjoying it.

    70's Harvad MBA, extensive experience in corporate and consultancy side moved to automotive related manufacturing based in Detroit.

    > They can teach a rock how to sell.

    I wonder what SAAS company has that type of approach to sales these days. Everyone SAAS sales job out there wants 2-3 years of sales experience even for entry level hires.

    22. sizzle ◴[] No.33229729[source]
    Do you have a good cheat sheet of all the finding/insights?
    replies(1): >>33240311 #
    23. fortysixdegrees ◴[] No.33230139{3}[source]
    Just remember that is as far as I know a US only thing.

    You'll be embarrassing yourself in most western countries with the swag/gifts approach.

    replies(1): >>33230231 #
    24. 1letterunixname ◴[] No.33230231{4}[source]
    Vendors typically send swag like coffee mugs, T-shirt, or cookies around the holidays to their valued customers. Nothing much but it's obviously an opportunity to gently ping the customer mid sales cycle. In the US, vendors typically take prospective customers (leads) out to above-average meals for business meetings. It's transparent but both the sales person and the prospect are getting a treat on the vendor's client entertainment budget. Would you say "no" out of rigid ethical purity or go along and still insist on more features, more due-diligence, more demos, and lower pricing?
    25. odshoifsdhfs ◴[] No.33232540{7}[source]
    I think he meant 'knock on the back door (or just walk in through the main entrance)' and not to just walk in through the back door
    replies(1): >>33240613 #
    26. ignoramous ◴[] No.33232777[source]
    Just stumbled upon this tweet by agazdecki on some more sales and marketing book recs for SaaS businesses: https://archive.is/w0cWU | https://nitter.net/agazdecki/status/1581808915515207681
    27. PangurBan ◴[] No.33233390[source]
    BlueTie is there any way I can get in touch with you? Agreed, Fanatical Prospecting is essential reading. And live prospecting for those types of offices is a good way to go initially and a reason why pharmaceutical sales reps do the same. They stop by, chat up gatekeepers and give them gifts. Gatekeepers love the ones with good gifts (fancy pens, desk sets, tickets, etc.), which those companies with their huge margins have the budgets for (I don’t suggest spending on costly gifts).
    28. encephalos ◴[] No.33240311{3}[source]
    ^^ would be interested in this (if it exists). I’ve tried scraping Google for PDFs in the past using terms like: cheatsheet, sales cycle, flow chart(s), checklist(s), etc. and haven’t really found anything that puts it all together simply and concisely. The /sales et al. subreddits have some gems occasionally, but seems like a lot of the "sales-related" stuff falls behind paywalls and gatekeepers, squeeze pages and landing pages with CTAs involving buying recycled courses or resources attached to X pseudo sales guru (more like furus) trying to sell you hot trash.

    As someone who has always held a beat on the technical side things (with limited practical skills) and advancements, decent understanding of industry and market shifts, BUT who has always opted to be involved in the more client-facing roles and duties, front office business development ops side of things, I find there’s limited "high quality" resources or even discussion board settings where the science behind selling or business development in general is properly highlighted.

    Heck, even formal academia is lacking in this department. We’ve recently seen the rise in Entrepreneurship-type undergrad programs / minors, which seem to be getting more optimized as time goes on, churning out good talent and individuals executing quickly on their ideas, but again, seems like sales in general is something overlooked, at first glance.

    I notice this also with the who’s hiring-type posts as well, there has to be 1000s of "fine-tuned" AEs/sales OPS, VPs, etc. that browse this board, which no doubt is meant to cater to the devs and engineers, but I am hopeful eventually the niche will carve itself out. Every firm hiring devs is almost always hiring for sales roles.

    My experience and observations have led me to understand that early stage startups usually secure their "business development" talent in early hires (like executives or VPs) with extensive experience in scaling operations with the hope to eventually start adding reps or defining territories, etc. but I foresee this tide changing soon as we enter this era of M&A/IB/"high finance" shift to restructurings, divestitures and spin offs for a lot of the bleeding tech sector and less actual M&A/vertical integration activity.

    Private equity firms (who might end up being responsible for the incoming bust cycle - just need to Google things like "private equity will be the cause of the next recession" or "PE ruined X industry" to find books and posts on the topic) who are notorious for focusing on leaning out orgs and "trimming the fat" might have to begin including added sales ops to their early expenses on their roadmaps if they want to remain competitive and keep the numbers healthy for their investors.

    More capital will have to go back into revenue generating operations and expenses, imo and traditional ones at that, such as business development talent vs. marketing. The more money your bus. dev people make, the more $ your firm is making. There’s a direct correlation there, since they work for commissions, not their base salaries and performance (%) adjusted annual bonuses.

    29. MarcelOlsz ◴[] No.33240613{8}[source]
    That makes a lot more sense.
    30. DanHulton ◴[] No.33380510{6}[source]
    For reference, yeah it was the "walk in the back door" part that is slimy.

    Walk in the _front_ door, that's where the public entrance is, and you are a member of the public. Not to mention that having someone unauthorized walking around in the back-of-house is a security risk.